Lighter Skin = Better?

[Cyberman]

Oh right - so basically nothing new then, Mehmet. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Rahul]

And do you believe that these slaves are really loyal to you? As though as any slave, one day, they will serve another master, when the time comes.

You need to brush up on current events. Slavery was illegalized in our country 148 years ago.

Don't sell African-Americans short. They have a rich cultural identity. They have fought along side of us in every war our country has had. African-Americans are part of the rich tapestry of our nation.

---

Well, I don't see it happening any other way, being colonists, from many different ethnicities, along with a bunch of slaves and natives on your back, I can't see them creating a state that derives its history and consciousness on any of the known, established nations on the earth.

We were vassals of the English. There was no reason to believe that we should have created the Nation that we did.

Being far away from the troubles of Europe, not stricken with endless war, only dealing with a few natives who did not have the advantage of a supply of colonists from the old world, who had weapons of iron.

Part of our greatness is that we are a nation descended from those who did not sit at home but struck out to new lands to find their fortune. The people in the Old World are descended from those that just played it safe and stayed home.

I see, though I believe that most of the ones you've mentioned there were in actuality "freed peasants" in their own way, since they had no obligation to serve a landlord in exchange for the right to stay.

Yep, freed peasants led by great and learned men.

As were mine. Though I cannot see any of these applying now to land of Burger King, Mc Donalds, and the said means of pursuing happiness in forms of drugs, lax sexual relations and of course, consumerism.

Yes. America is the worst nation on Earth. Except for all the others on the planet.

Obviously your foundation was flawed, as you took in more and more people who came there for the sake of their selfish desires, such as those who rejected their own national identity for simply higher living standards, those who have traded their own names for your names, those who have traded their own history and culture for your non-existent, artificial and put together culture.

We brought our names with us. My last name is actually Welsh in origin.

It's not selfish desires to seek a better life at great odds. It's actually brave as shit.

As I have said in a different thread, you even refuse to grand health care to your less fortunate countrymen, for many of you are unwilling to part with their wealth, for that is what your country teaches their citizens....

Yeah, the Republicans. They're on the wane.

Revel in these days, as the world has seen many empires come and go, and I believe that your end will be a very painful one, as the only glue that holds you together is "the pursuit of happiness". But once happiness is gone(and it just might, friend), what will you do? What will hold you together?

Empires go, huh? Like the empire your country used to be? You live in a fragment of a part of a dead empire. Turkey has seen better days, friend.

We're still kicking ass and getting stronger.

I've visited Turkey before you know. Ah, the calls of "My friend! My friend!" as the locals tried to sell me stuff. And you know what kind of stuff they tried to sell me on every street corner?

Americana merchandise.

I had to specifically ask for Turkish stuff because I didn't travel half way across the world to buy images of Elvis.

[kılıç_mehmet]

And do you believe that these slaves are really loyal to you? As though as any slave, one day, they will serve another master, when the time comes.

You need to brush up on current events. Slavery was illegalized in our country 148 years ago.

Don't sell African-Americans short. They have a rich cultural identity. They have fought along side of us in every war our country has had. African-Americans are part of the rich tapestry of our nation.

And ilegalizing it does not make them less your slaves. Most people in your country have abandoned their own identities on their own free will, but the blacks were forcefully stripped of it. This still makes them slaves, though they are not bound to "serve" you, they are still descendants of slaves, not free people.
And as slaves, they do not really give a damn if you were so kind to free them afterwards, for you still subjected them to slavery, not just bodily slavery, but slavery of the mind. They have nowhere else to go, man.
It is as the story of the Mankurt. I will tell you of it.
Once upon a time, a great mighty dynasty had ruled our ancestral homeland, the Rouran. They practiced slavery, as did all steppe people, but they have perfected it. They would take a slave, and shave his head, then attach a still fresh and blood patch of camel on skin on their head. Then, they would bind this slave with ropes on a wooden pole, exposing them to the baking hot sun. The skin would eventually dry and shrink, compressing the skin of the head, hurting them. In time, the hair would not be able to grow in the normal direction as it would before, and it would ingrow and cause further pain. They were of course, fed, and were given water during the time, and were left there for many days. Most would not survive, but those who did, would go mad, and completely forget about who they were what they were, and would simply exist to serve their masters. They were as dogs, you see.
However you have abolished the need for them to serve their masters, and now they go about aimlessly, with no real purpose of their own, yet still have no memory of what or who they were, they have simply accepted the identity their masters have given them.

So do not tell me that just by abolishing their need to be servile to you, you have freed them.
African Americans have a "rich cultural identity"? Yes, no more than the common American I'd say, though I believe that they also lack any sort of knowledge about ancestry, or how and why they actually they came here. Some Americans have come there with a noble purpose in their mind. They were not allowed to worship God in the way they saw was right, so they have left their homes to find a place where they can properly worship God in peace. A noble purpose indeed. These people can actually look back on that. Some came there to actually "pursue happiness", a place that was still virgin, untouched and unspoiled, a place of liberties and of course many other things. As for blacks, they have come there as slaves. Their existence there is not of their own choice, but of the choice of someone else. They have nothing to look back, and say "I came here to do this" or "for that purpose".
Just as a dog is glad to die for his master, for his master throws him bones, feeds him(as you have given them their so-called liberty), they have attended your wars, though I don't see them being actually on the same level as you. And from the threads I've read here, racism is still at large in this and of liberty and freedom, what purpose did it serve for them to fight for you? Nothing!
But just as the Mankurt, they really do not realize what goes on, and why they are fighting for a country that has brought them here not on their free will. I think it wasn't me who first laid down these facts.

And they have distanced themselves from this nice big tapestry of yours, as they were never a part of it to begin with as much as you'd like to think they are.

[MikeTheInfidel]

I'm a member of a people that has created and tore down empires. I look back on these, and take pride, and it motivates me to drive our legacy even further. What do you have, friend?

Pride in my own accomplishments, rather than a completely fucking pointless pride in things I had nothing to do with.

"I COME FROM A NATION THAT DID STUFF!" Well WHOOP DE FUCKING DOO. What have YOU done?

[kılıç_mehmet]

We were vassals of the English. There was no reason to believe that we should have created the Nation that we did.

Being vassals of the English does not make you English, friend. Just as the people of Hindustan were the vassals of the English, they did create a nation state, did they not? So did many of the former vassals, with exceptions being colonies like yourself, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa.
Countries and nations that have names based on the locations that they live on are almost all artificial. Similarly, Great Britain is also artificial, as they are nothing more than what I deem to be the illegitimate child of Celts, Norse/Germanics, and Latins.

Part of our greatness is that we are a nation descended from those who did not sit at home but struck out to new lands to find their fortune. The people in the Old World are descended from those that just played it safe and stayed home.

Well, indeed, we're the same on that too. Our people have originated in Mongolia, and have spread from there deep into Europe, and actually managed to carve themselves a place there. Nomads, who have defied settled folk with cities, fortifications, and a lot more knowledge about the area. And who were you up against?
I'd say the same for another people, as if we were sprung from the same bloody womb. The Norse. Hell, these guys just might be our bros, for doing the same thing, yet sadly lacking in numbers.

Yep, freed peasants led by great and learned men.

Indeed.

We brought our names with us. My last name is actually Welsh in origin.

It's not selfish desires to seek a better life at great odds. It's actually brave as shit.

I wasn't talking about you, though, descendant of Europeans.
Besides, its not a matter of seeking better lives at great odds. Yes, the first colonists, pioneers, as they are called, were such, they were brave indeed, to venture into lands that they knew little about and such...But those who've come to find the fortune they could not find in their homeland, those who have forsaken their roots, I really do label them as nothing more than selfish. Forsaking your own people, your own lands. There are such people in my country aswell, who are glad to forsake their own selves, and would gladly assimilate anywhere where they can earn more money to buy themselves a car, or many of the luxuries they can't yet afford here maybe.
My loyalty to my own is not measured by such worldly things.

My creed demands sacrifice, it does not promise me paradise on heaven.

Yeah, the Republicans. They're on the wane.

Wane or not, Obama is doing this because it will become necessary in the future. IT's not out of humane concern, but in order to save you from a future catastrophe, where the gap between the rich and the poor will probably get bigger and bigger, and a lot more people will be unable to afford healthcare, at which points you will not just deal with "occupy wall street" type of peaceful demonstrations, but large scale riots that will involve robberies, murders and rapes of people that are wealthier then they are, probably the middle class, or whatever that is left of it at that point, and the upper classes, just as it was the case with the French revolution. But this time, there is no King, and they will strike at the Bourgeoisie, that forms your educated, learned men, and those who employ your educated and learned men.

I'd say that this has something to do with your faulty foundations aswell.
Nothing more.

Yes. America is the worst nation on Earth. Except for all the others on the planet.

Worst, I'd not say, yet you can save yourselves, but you do not wish to end this faulty worldview of yours.

Empires go, huh? Like the empire your country used to be? You live in a fragment of a part of a dead empire. Turkey has seen better days, friend.

We're still kicking ass and getting stronger.

And our empire lasted 600 years, while being attacked on all fronts, by Europe, Persia, Russia. You? Never once has your country been invaded, except for Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 of course, after which you've sparked a paranoia about terrorism in the world.
We live in a fragment of a dead empire, yet our empire was stricken by internal strife that came from strong ethnic sentiments, indeed something which you lack, I'd say, for there are no natives that can tell you to GTFO. We now live in a land where we have ourselves. And in the future, we shall hopefully reunite without brethren, and then we'll see.

I've visited Turkey before you know. Ah, the calls of "My friend! My friend!" as the locals tried to sell me stuff. And you know what kind of stuff they tried to sell me on every street corner?

Americana merchandise.

I had to specifically ask for Turkish stuff because I didn't travel half way across the world to buy images of Elvis.

Yes, I know, a byproduct of being of the "NATO". But I believe the remedy to this is a spoonful of oldschool, hardcore nationalism. This is the fault of another faulty thinking of our past politicians, who were the same as I've described above.

---

I'm a member of a people that has created and tore down empires. I look back on these, and take pride, and it motivates me to drive our legacy even further. What do you have, friend?

Pride in my own accomplishments, rather than a completely fucking pointless pride in things I had nothing to do with.

"I COME FROM A NATION THAT DID STUFF!" Well WHOOP DE FUCKING DOO. What have YOU done?

I guess you haven't read the part about this motivating me to drive our legacy further. For legacies are left for the future generations. If we did not look back on our previous archivements and took pride, we would not really try to leave something to look upon for the future. Your worldview is very self-centered friend. I guess this is because you've got no one to look upon. And really what do you have?
National pride is the basis of archivement. Speaking of it, you sound as though if you had inherited property from your parents or relatives, you'd just turn it down or tear it down What a fool!

[Rahul]

Being vassals of the English does not make you English, friend.

True, we are something new on this earth. Something greater than the sum of our parts. Your people are just the diminished dregs of your ancestors who were much greater than those left to the current day.

You speak of us Americans needing to revel in our people exploring the moon. Yet, you only speak of the accomplishments of your people centuries in the past.

Our technology, our robots, are exploring Mars as you and I communicate on these forums. Communicating over the internet, a technology my country invented. Has your nation even lauched a satellite in low Earth orbit? From your own rockets?

Americans are still on the cutting edge of exploration. As we have been since the birth of our nation.

Well, indeed, we're the same on that too. Our people have originated in Mongolia, and have spread from there deep into Europe, and actually managed to carve themselves a place there.

How long did that take? Even if every one of your people from the Mongolian based ancestors to your current generation moved 5 miles in their total life, they would have made it to your current location in that much time that has passed.

Your people move slow, my friend. And they haven't moved much at all in a long time.

Forsaking your own people, your own lands. There are such people in my country aswell, who are glad to forsake their own selves, and would gladly assimilate anywhere where they can earn more money to buy themselves a car, or many of the luxuries they can't yet afford here maybe.

We made a new nation, became a new people based on conscious decisions for something greater than accident of birth. And you consider this a failing? Blind faith to your people because you were just born to them is not impressive.

It's just dogmatic. Rejection of blind servitute to such concepts is what makes my people something this planet has never encountered before. Something with higher ideals and dreams. And it pisses most of the rest of the world off.

My loyalty to my own is not measured by such worldly things.

Bull.

Wane or not, Obama is doing this because it will become necessary in the future. IT's not out of humane concern, but in order to save you from a future catastrophe, where the gap between the rich and the poor will probably get bigger and bigger, and a lot more people will be unable to afford healthcare, at which points you will not just deal with "occupy wall street" type of peaceful demonstrations, but large scale riots that will involve robberies, murders and rapes of people that are wealthier then they are, probably the middle class, or whatever that is left of it at that point, and the upper classes, just as it was the case with the French revolution.

Funny thing. I'm lower middle class but I have really high quality health coverage for my entire family through my job. Odd. Media reports are intentionally sensationalized to sell papers and ad space.

Do we have issues we need to correct? Of course. I'd look askew at anyone from any country that did not say the same. But don't buy into every sensationalized piece of news that popular media throws out.

I'd say that this has something to do with your faulty foundations aswell.

Nothing more.

...

Worst, I'd not say, yet you can save yourselves, but you do not wish to end this faulty worldview of yours.

Faulty, faulty, faulty. Like Turkey is not full of faulty worldviews?

You know what I most like about Turkey? They are the only country on Earth where even less of their populace than the US believes in the scientifically proven Theory of Evolution.

Thanks for making sure America isn't comprised of the most retarded people on Earth, Turkey. We owe you for that.

And our empire lasted 600 years, while being attacked on all fronts, by Europe, Persia, Russia. You? Never once has your country been invaded, except for Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 of course, after which you've sparked a paranoia about terrorism in the world.

You don't know much about American history, eh?

It shows. We've been invaded. Boots on the ground, enemy military soldiers, on our soil. Even to the point of burning down the presidential home in Washington DC.

We live in a fragment of a dead empire, yet our empire was stricken by internal strife that came from strong ethnic sentiments, indeed something which you lack, I'd say, for there are no natives that can tell you to GTFO. We now live in a land where we have ourselves. And in the future, we shall hopefully reunite without brethren, and then we'll see.

The arc that your country is going, and has been going for years now is just to turn into another backward, Theocratic, Muslim country stoning people to death, hanging gays because they were born the way they were, and horribly oppressing your own mothers, grandmothers, sisters, daughters, and wives. Even to the point of killing them if they offend your family's "honor".

Would you like to discuss your state sponsered Brothels where wives of jailed Turks can whore themselves to shorten their husband's jail time?

We can go into that. Something that the American people would explode over, your people accept it and take advantage of the service.

Yes, I know, a byproduct of being of the "NATO". But I believe the remedy to this is a spoonful of oldschool, hardcore nationalism. This is the fault of another faulty thinking of our past politicians, who were the same as I've described above.

We didn't need to be a member of NATO to export our culture wholesale into yours. Oddly enough I didn't see any other merchandise prominently displayed on your every street corner from any other members of NATO.

Just American goods.

Your people were even buying the shoes off our feet (literally) to get their hands on more American goods.

[MikeTheInfidel]

I guess you haven't read the part about this motivating me to drive our legacy further. For legacies are left for the future generations. If we did not look back on our previous archivements and took pride, we would not really try to leave something to look upon for the future. Your worldview is very self-centered friend. I guess this is because you've got no one to look upon. And really what do you have?
National pride is the basis of archivement. Speaking of it, you sound as though if you had inherited property from your parents or relatives, you'd just turn it down or tear it down What a fool!

You take pride in planning to do things? Sounds like dumbassery and laziness to me. I take pride in what I actually do.

[Polaris]

The political positions for my people are almost always given to people lacking color, but I see that as remnant of colonisation.

[paulpablo]

The political positions for my people are almost always given to people lacking color, but I see that as remnant of colonisation.

By lacking color do you mean black?

[Anomalocaris]

I guess you haven't read the part about this motivating me to drive our legacy further. For legacies are left for the future generations. If we did not look back on our previous archivements and took pride, we would not really try to leave something to look upon for the future. Your worldview is very self-centered friend. I guess this is because you've got no one to look upon. And really what do you have?
National pride is the basis of archivement. Speaking of it, you sound as though if you had inherited property from your parents or relatives, you'd just turn it down or tear it down What a fool!

You take pride in planning to do things? Sounds like dumbassery and laziness to me. I take pride in what I actually do.

You notice the most unmoderated "nationalists" tend to be from historically backwards groups that had no significant history of any nationhood to speak of, and whose "national identity" is largely a fictional contrivance concocted by tribal demoguagues?