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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 7:54 pm
(August 10, 2013 at 6:37 pm)Drich Wrote: (August 7, 2013 at 10:26 pm)Rationalman Wrote: The problem with your analogy is that we can actually see colours. We cannot see your god. The color blind can not see color, what of that segment of the population? are they to stand on faith that the rest of the population is not trying to trick them? At what point do the color blind say maybe I simply can not see what others see?
Quote:Just because I am made aware of the Loch Ness monster, does not automatically mean i believe it exists. This is how all sceptics operate. We need actual evidence before we go believing in something. We can't help it, thats just the way we are.
Then A/S/K It is not the job of a Christian to provide you with 'proof.' That is the task of God Himself.
The point is that we know exactly why and how they cannot distinguish some colors. There is a complete explanation.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 7:55 pm
fr0do, pretend you're locked in a room with me. The only way to get out of the room is to convince me Christianity is true. How would you do it?
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2013 at 8:03 pm by fr0d0.)
umm..  (this post is in response to the riddles post. My phone is locking up, and it's way too late)
/I'm not talking about an afterlife, which is what I presume you mean by Pascal's wager.
Christianity is embracing positivity. God is good etc. In it you are acknowledging that doing good stuff is beneficial. Rejecting God is embracing bad stuff. (You might have to grant the goodness idea if you're of the opinion of the God concept being evil).
The after life is important in this consideration, because God nor this reality could be seen to be 'good' with injustices we observe. The afterlife allows God the ability to enact justice: therefore we can be justified in believing in positivity given a now just reality.
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:02 pm
(August 10, 2013 at 6:37 pm)Drich Wrote: Then A/S/K It is not the job of a Christian to provide you with 'proof.' That is the task of God Himself.
Burden of proof bla bla bla bla. Its been said a thousand times before and it is no less true now. Christians make the positive claim a god exists, you have to prove your claim.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm
(August 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: umm.. (this post is in response to the riddles post. My phone is locking up, and it's way too late)
/I'm not talking about an afterlife, which is what I presume you mean by Pascal's wager.
Christianity is embracing positivity. God is good etc. In it you are acknowledging that doing good stuff is beneficial. Rejecting God is embracing bad stuff. (You might have to grant the goodness idea if you're of the opinion of the God concept being evil).
The after life is important in this consideration, because God nor this reality could be seen to be 'good' with injustices we observe. The afterlife allows God the ability to enact justice: therefore we can be justified in believing in positivity given a now just reality.
And how does this prove Christianity? I don't see how this is proof. You're just saying that Christianity allows you to see existence in a different light. But why should we adopt Christianity in the first place?
I assume you believe Christianity is true and other religions are false. Correct? Why do you believe that? Is just because Christianity is a nicer thought to you? You want to believe it? Is that all the reason you have?
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-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:10 pm
(August 10, 2013 at 7:55 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: fr0do, pretend you're locked in a room with me. The only way to get out of the room is to convince me Christianity is true. How would you do it?
If I could convince you that Christianity was true, then Christianity would be false.
Only God convinces. All anyone can do is present you with the information honestly.
I would talk you through every point of disagreement you had, until everything was covered and answered satisfactorily. You would have the information, and you would be able to give your assent to it.
Would this be enough for you, or are you asking to believe it too?
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:12 pm
(August 10, 2013 at 8:10 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (August 10, 2013 at 7:55 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: fr0do, pretend you're locked in a room with me. The only way to get out of the room is to convince me Christianity is true. How would you do it?
If I could convince you that Christianity was true, then Christianity would be false.
Only God convinces. All anyone can do is present you with the information honestly.
I would talk you through every point of disagreement you had, until everything was covered and answered satisfactorily. You would have the information, and you would be able to give your assent to it.
Would this be enough for you, or are you asking to believe it too?
I'm asking you to give the best possible argument for Christianity that you can muster.
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm by fr0d0.)
(August 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: And how does this prove Christianity? I don't see how this is proof. You're just saying that Christianity allows you to see existence in a different light. But why should we adopt Christianity in the first place?
I assume you believe Christianity is true and other religions are false. Correct? Why do you believe that? Is just because Christianity is a nicer thought to you? You want to believe it? Is that all the reason you have?
Christianity cannot be independently proven.
There are many religious endeavors, and they all address the same subject: purpose. I understand Christianity to be the last evolutionary step. No other faith creates a means by which God pulls humans up to his level. This is what is unique about the Jewish concept, given that it is based almost entirely if not entirely on parallel faiths of its time.
(August 10, 2013 at 8:12 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I'm asking you to give the best possible argument for Christianity that you can muster.
Why? What is the point?
I've already given you the best reason: your life is enhanced compared to a life where you cannot justify this level of positivity.
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:25 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(August 10, 2013 at 8:20 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (August 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: And how does this prove Christianity? I don't see how this is proof. You're just saying that Christianity allows you to see existence in a different light. But why should we adopt Christianity in the first place?
I assume you believe Christianity is true and other religions are false. Correct? Why do you believe that? Is just because Christianity is a nicer thought to you? You want to believe it? Is that all the reason you have?
Christianity cannot be independently proven. If you're speaking of empirical evidence, I don't require empirical evidence to prove Christianity (although that would be awesome). I'm just wanting to hear some sort of reason out of you.
Quote:There are many religious endeavors, and they all address the same subject: purpose. I understand Christianity to be the last evolutionary step. No other faith creates a means by which God pulls humans up to his level. This is what is unique about the Jewish concept, given that it is based almost entirely if not entirely on parallel faiths of its time.
So, is this what you're saying?
A religion that is unlike any other religion is the one true religion.
Christianity is unlike any other religion.
Therefore, Christianity is the one true religion.
(August 10, 2013 at 8:20 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: ...
Why? What is the point?
I've already given you the best reason: your life is enhanced compared to a life where you cannot justify this level of positivity.
That's a pragmatic reason for believing in something. I'm not after a pragmatic reason. Pragmatic reasons for believing in something says nothing about the truth or falsity of that belief.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Proof of Christianity
August 10, 2013 at 8:39 pm
(August 10, 2013 at 8:25 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: So, is this what you're saying?
A religion that is unlike any other religion is the one true religion.
Christianity is unlike any other religion.
Therefore, Christianity is the one true religion.
lol hardly
Christianity is the last evolutionary step. Other religions don't go this far/ they are incomplete in comparison. Like I said, and it obviously meant nothing to you, God reaches down to you and enables you to claim perfection, even though you are imperfect (a Christian, amongst others, assumption). You don't need to work at it, you don't need to suffer for it, all you have to do is accept it and embrace it.
Outside of the dogma, you are embracing positivity, and rejecting negativity. Your imperfections and tenancy to fail are accepted, all that is important is that your aim is for positivity.
Without any religion this is achievable. Christianity ids simply a ready made blue print, should you want to get there using a map.
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