Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.

[Esquilax]

I don't we agree on what atheism is, to me it's a rival religious belief that would replace theism/Christianity.

Then it's a good thing that what you think we should believe has no bearing on what we actually believe, isn't it?

[daandaan]

I reject atheism

You realise how stupid you sound when you say that right? You are basically saying: I reject the rejection of my claims

I don't we agree on what atheism is, to me it's a rival religious belief that would replace theism/Christianity.

why r u dodging my question??


u stated: God was never made or created nor does he exist in any physical form as any kind of process within time and space.

So where does god live (exist)?? or how do u explain ur claim??

[Cyberman]

I don't we agree on what atheism is, to me it's a rival religious belief that would replace theism/Christianity.

Then it's a good thing that what you think we should believe has no bearing on what we actually believe, isn't it?

It's really quite interesting, actually, since to me Christianity is a small citrus fruit sort of a cross between a boysenberry and a lemon.

[DLJ]

...
I don't [think] we agree on what atheism is, to me it's a rival religious belief that would replace theism/Christianity.

To me, theism is the family of squirrels that live in the trees outside my old apartment block.

Theisms are really cute and fluffy and eat nuts from my hand.

[Tonus]

In other words, you are inviting theism to lick your nuts?

[DLJ]

In other words, you are inviting theism to lick your nuts?

Do I get an 'assist' for that one?

[Sword of Christ]

You keep saying this like it's a rebuttal, but it really isn't: if we're an accident, so what?

We're not an accident alright? The universe clearly built up toward greater level of precisely arranged complexity over time and we're the most complex objects in the known universe sitting right here this was built around a system of physical laws that had to be 100% perfectly arranged without error. You're not just saying you don't know whether God exists or not you're saying you don't give a fuck about him if he does, you may as well just not give a fuck about anything then.

Why would that be the case? In your worldview the same basics apply: your god would be the eternal thing that lacks a context and was accidental, why does the presence of a consciousness in the mix suddenly validate free will and morality?

No not my god, your God, our God, the God with a capital G. God is the context he is the creator and the reason for existence, everything the whole lot. Without him there is no reason because he is the reason. If God doesn't exist then there is no such as morality or good and evil we just made it up and everyone's opinion is as valid as anyone else. If God doesn't exist how are we meant to have freewill? We would be the product of physically explainable processes and we can explain and predict all these processes as they are mechanistically determined. If we are created in the image of God then we share in the freewill he has seeing as he is a being beyond the natural order who purposefully created the natural order. We are the product of Gods creation.

Well, we know the universe in its current state had a beginning. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and assume that there was nothing before it, when science hasn't been able to investigate it fully.

There wasn't a time before God created time. God may well have created other universes but they will have their own time streams. God exists beyond time but is relational to it. A bit of William Lane Craig on this subject.

Well, that's not exactly true: we see examples of regression of the loss of features just as often as we see the addition of new ones. My favorite example is whales, given that their ancestry actually lies in early ungulates, land animals that returned to the sea and developed aquatic forms like their sea based predecessors. If everything is moving toward complexity, with humanity being the top of that chain, then this alone violates your premise, but even in human life, we've lost some things along the way. We're no longer covered from head to toe in hair, for one. Our appendix no longer has a function, nor do our little toes: these are all examples of humans losing things, growing simpler as evolution does its
The only way you can really say there's a progression toward complexity is to ignore large swathes of what's actually happening with evolution.

Look at this.

Very Simple/basic. The foundation of life here.

http://www.arcadiastreet.com/cgvistas/ea...s_1280.jpg


Complex, the process is well underway.




Really seriously complex not too far from where we are now.



Complexity built up over time, not just in the biological world of course but applies to the structure of the universe in general and it's natural formation over time. You're claiming that was accidental but I'm going to have to disagree, this was intentional, not micromanged but intentional.

So how do you decide which parts don't have to be true?

The Holy Spirit tells you or something, I don't know why does matter what parts are literally true? What matters is whether God exists and whether the Bible is the spiritual tool you can use to commune with this very same God. It's a Holy book that's what it's for.

Or is it done in reverse, where the more the real world contradicts the book, the less the book has to be literally true in order to keep its credibility?

It is the real world, at least to some degree in some sense we're not going to nitpick over details. It's the reality of God and our relationship to him as laid out in there that matters.

Sorry, personal incredulity and what you think makes sense has no bearing on what's actually true.

It makes sense because it is true and if it wasn't true it wouldn't make much sense but it does makes sense so it is! ARGH!

[daandaan]

A bit of William Lane Craig on this subject.

Time and Eternity

so r u now claimimg god to be eternal??


Then, who made eternity allowing god to be eternal??

[DLJ]

...

...

[Sword of Christ]

Then it's a good thing that what you think we should believe has no bearing on what we actually believe, isn't it?

It is in opposition to theism/Christianity/other religions and it would replace them with something that isn't theism/Christianity/religion if everyone were to adhere to the ideology. So I have the right idea if we're being fair and not beating around the bush about it. If God doesn't exist or there isn't a good reason to believe in him then from that point of view atheism would be what everyone ought to ideally (de)convert to. If God does exist then you may want to avoid it, at best you're just going to be horribly wrong.

Then, who made eternity allowing god to be eternal??

God is eternity, the Alpha and the Omega. That which wasn't created will have always existed.