Yahweh, the Devil, and Job

[Esquilax]

The basis for which is hunger, which, last I checked, is only optional to an extent.

No, I wasn't hungry. They just taste good.

Humans don't need pleasure and enjoyment?

[John V]

Humans don't need pleasure and enjoyment?

They don't need donuts.

[Esquilax]

Humans don't need pleasure and enjoyment?

They don't need donuts.

You're mistaking the object for the need it fulfills; technically, you don't need food of any kind. What you need is the chemical energy that food provides, so you could just as easily pump it directly into your gut.

The donut does double duty as food and a source of enjoyment, a psychological need that's better left filled, even if there are other ways to do so.

[John V]

You're mistaking the object for the need it fulfills;

No, you're mistaking a desire for a need.

I could have gone to the store and gotten a donut. I didn't. I'm still here and not feeling deprived. Therefore I did not need the donut.

[Dionysius]

I can feel myself gaining intelligence just reading John's thoughtful and well educated replies. Thx.

[Cinjin]

You're mistaking the object for the need it fulfills;

No, you're mistaking a desire for a need.

I could have gone to the store and gotten a donut. I didn't. I'm still here and not feeling deprived. Therefore I did not need the donut.

This whole point of yours is ridiculous. I can't believe you expect any rational person to accept this as a logical conclusion when you yourself want to sell us the idea that your god "needs" pleasure and derives it from watching his sheep suffer.

[Esquilax]

No, you're mistaking a desire for a need.

I could have gone to the store and gotten a donut. I didn't. I'm still here and not feeling deprived. Therefore I did not need the donut.

You did not need the donut, but the donut, had it been imbibed, would have fulfilled a need.

In response to the initial question you answered, you seem to be mistaking your needs, with the way your body interprets and conveys those needs to you; when you're hungry, the message you get isn't one about the chemical energy you need to replenish, though that's the need it fulfills. Rather, you begin desiring food, probably even specific kinds of food. In regards to the donut, it would have made you happy to have one, and happiness is a need. You just have other methods of obtaining happiness close by to you, so lacking that donut isn't a terrible blow to you.

Aren't you lucky?

[John V]

You did not need the donut,

DING DING DING! Give the man (sort of) a cigar! (Just don't ask him what he's going to do with it.)

but the donut, had it been imbibed, would have fulfilled a need.

No, it would have fulfilled a desire. If I had needed it, I would have gone and gotten it. It was within my power to do so. Since it was only a desire, I had the option not to get it.

---

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime
You just might find
You get what you need

[Mystical]

DING DING DING! Give the man (sort of) a cigar! (Just don't ask him what he's going to do with it.)

Not everyone finds an alternative use for long cylindrical objects like you do, John.

but the donut, had it been imbibed, would have fulfilled a need.

No, it would have fulfilled a desire. If I had needed it, I would have gone and gotten it. It was within my power to do so. Since it was only a desire, I had the option not to get it.

Not true. I have a prescription waiting at the pharmacy right now that I need and if I don't get my body will shut down within 24 hrs. I'm not breaking into the pharmacy to get it right now am I? Even though I'm going through physical withdrawals of not having whatever the thyroid releases daily? You can have needs and choose not to fulfill them. God doesn't have any need for obedience. If anything it would be a want, which brings us back to: god is a selfish bastard. What was your counter argument to that? I missed it.

[Esquilax]

No, it would have fulfilled a desire. If I had needed it, I would have gone and gotten it. It was within my power to do so. Since it was only a desire, I had the option not to get it.

Or, alternately, as I said earlier, you had other methods by which you could fulfill the need that the donut would have sated. This would be like you arguing that you don't need to drink water, because you can drink this nearby juice and not feel thirsty anymore. Sure, it's factually true, but the thing you're getting from the juice is the same thing you'd be getting from the water.