What The Bible Really Teaches About Hell

[Daystar]

I wouldn't say it has no "secular" meaning. There are plenty of secular theists who believe in sin. Sin certainly has no meaning to a non-believer though.

OK, I'm, probably confusing my words here, replace secular with "non-religious" and you get the idea

Kyu

I'll do it for you. The 2002 Webster's New World College Dictionary, fourth edition - Sin. 2. An offense against any law, standard, code, etc. [to sin against good taste].

[Kyuuketsuki]

I'll do it for you. The 2002 Webster's New World College Dictionary, fourth edition - Sin. 2. An offense against any law, standard, code, etc. [to sin against good taste].

And I already did that:

No, whilst I accept there is a wider definition of "sin" its primary definition (& common usage) is religious.

From Miriam-Webster:
1 a: an offense against religious or moral law b: an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c: an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a: transgression of the law of God b: a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

Their definition also happens to be wrong because there is no usage (at least that I am aware of) of the word "sin" that doesn't, at least implicitly, gain it's meaning from the religious connotation of the word.

To use the M-W example, "It's a sin to waste food" ... it implicitly gets it's meaning from the concept of wrong doing outlined in scripture therefore it's use is inherently religious.

As such, given that there is no validatable evidence supporting the existence of deity, I reject utterly the notion of sin from a non-religious POV and repeat that I am therefore unable to commit sin.

Kyu

[Daystar]

Their definition also happens to be wrong because there is no usage (at least that I am aware of) of the word "sin" that doesn't, at least implicitly, gain it's meaning from the religious connotation of the word.

To use the M-W example, "It's a sin to waste food" ... it implicitly gets it's meaning from the concept of wrong doing outlined in scripture therefore it's use is inherently religious.

As such, given that there is no validatable evidence supporting the existence of deity, I reject utterly the notion of sin from a non-religious POV and repeat that I am therefore unable to commit sin.

I don't think that the second list (Sin. 2. An offense against any law, standard, code, etc. [to sin against good taste].) implicitly gets it's meaning from the concept of wrong doing oulined in scripture, or is inherently religious.

Even if it were, that wouldn't mean much because many of our words come from a similar source. The days of the week come from the pagan gods. Tombstones, wedding rings, wind chimes ... all from pagan religion.

[lukec]

What about a virgin birthed son of a god, who is killed and reborn?

[Daystar]

What about a virgin birthed son of a god, who is killed and reborn?

What about it? I don't get the context.

[lukec]

Even if it were, that wouldn't mean much because many of our words come from a similar source. The days of the week come from the pagan gods. Tombstones, wedding rings, wind chimes ... all from pagan religion.

I just meant that the whole jesus story is also taken piecemeal from "pagan" religions.

[Daystar]

Even if it were, that wouldn't mean much because many of our words come from a similar source. The days of the week come from the pagan gods. Tombstones, wedding rings, wind chimes ... all from pagan religion.

I just meant that the whole jesus story is also taken piecemeal from "pagan" religions.

Actually it isn't. Some poor scholars have attempted to sell some books to that effect, but that's about it. A few years back I made a somewhat hasty decision regarding some information I was given to that effect and briefly denounced my beliefs. I started to look into it further in order to share this information with others and discovered it was not the case.

That makes me a bit of a putz, doesn't it? Anyway I will not do that again.

[lukec]

Actually it isn't. Some poor scholars have attempted to sell some books to that effect, but that's about it. A few years back I made a somewhat hasty decision regarding some information I was given to that effect and briefly denounced my beliefs. I started to look into it further in order to share this information with others and discovered it was not the case.

That makes me a bit of a putz, doesn't it? Anyway I will not do that again.

Ugh. Daystar. Please. How many of these books did you actually bother to read? And with the underhanded insult too... tsk tsk.

Now, I don't think you did look into it hard enough, because there is clear evidence that the Jesus story is plagiarised... Before I even go into that though, you know that the bible was only a loose collection of stories before they were gathered as a list, probably in the second century. This begs the question as to where these stories actually came from. You say inspired, I agree, you say by god, I say by earlier stories. Not until Paul was the gnostic christ figure assigned divinity etc etc, and not until Ignatius was "the gospel" mentioned, or the virgin birth, and these early Christ cults were actually in a sense rebelling against the gnostic idea that christ was a spiritual figure- not an actual person. They called gnostics heretics... Hmm.

So, anyway, these people doing the actual writing had to figure out some way, it seems, to make their case more presentable, adding eyewittness accounts (which are not quoted, by the way, by either Paul or Ignatius) and then miracles. So, starting with the virgin birth, it's probably based on Tammuz, born of the virgin Myrrha. Appropriately, this particular myth was based in northern Israel. How many other "Sons of God" were hangin around, supposedly born of a mortal woman? Some of the older ones; Ra, Krishna,Tammuz, Dionysus... just as examples.

Horus particularly interests me, and because I'm reading "The Pagan Christ" (By Tom Harpur) right now, I'll take a few of his examples.
-When Horus was born, the Morning Star of egypt, (Sirius) signalled his birth
-Horus was baptized by "Anup the Baptizer" who was later decapitated
-Horus walked on water
-Horus healed the sick
-Horus was crucified, burried, and resurrected
-Horus was the good shepard, the lamb, the bread of life, the son of man, the word

These are just a few, and apparently Gerald Massey has traced over 180, if you care to look them up.

Everything about Jesus had already been done by the time he showed up.

[Daystar]

Lukec, can you show me what you say about Horus is true? Other than what you and some guy you read in a book said was true?

Keep this in mind.

Asshur, is portrayed as having three heads. Images can be found in Catholic churches depicting God as having three heads.

Triad gods were very common in pagan teachings, but the trinity wasn't adopted until much later. That goes for Christmas as well.

Also, as for the books of the Bible I know that sometime before Adam's death in 3096 B.C.E. Genesis 5:1 made reference to "the book of Adam’s history."

[lukec]

I don't know if it's true yet, I'll look into it though as soon as I get a chance.

Can you show me what you say about Jesus is true? Other than what you and the bible say is true?