The Holodomor: Starvation of more than 6 million Ukrainians by Stalin

[theyear12013]

I think there is a great case to be made that the Holodomor was one of the worst genocides of the 20th century if not the worst. Let's not forget it. And I hope no one will deny it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомор, "Extermination by hunger" or "Hunger-extermination";[2] derived from 'Морити голодом', "Killing by Starvation" [3][4][5]) was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian SSR in 1932 and 1933.[6] During the famine, which is also known as the "Terror-Famine in Ukraine" and "Famine-Genocide in Ukraine",[7][8][9] millions of citizens of Ukrainian SSR, the majority of whom were Ukrainians, died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[10] Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by Ukraine and several other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people.[11]

Early estimates of the death toll by scholars and government officials varied greatly; anywhere from 1.8[12] to 12 million[13] ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished as a result of the famine."

[Jackalope]

You are aware that this is a discussion site and not a mirror site for Wikipedia, yes?

[theyear12013]

You are aware that this is a discussion site and not a mirror site for Wikipedia, yes?

Edited per your request to include some discussion points as to why I posted it. My apologies.

[EgoRaptor]

The Holodomor was due to the ineffective economic management by the idiotic Soviet elite. There is nothing to suggest it was deliberate.

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Stalin was a truly evil man, & probably knew that the Ukrainians were starving & didn't care, but I doubt he really intended to starve them. He just didn't care.

[Belac Enrobso]

No need to worry now, this badass is on the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNKm3TsJ9Ks

[theyear12013]

I don't agree that it was not intentional. Certainly ethnic Ukrainians strongly disagree that it was not intentional. There are historians who debate the topic in a rational way however as evidenced by Wiki once again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#G...e_question

"Here's one opinion from the Genocide Question in the Holodomor article on Wikipedia that I agree with, "Genocide scholar Adam Jones stresses that many of the actions of the Soviet leadership during 1931–32 should be considered genocidal. Not only did the famine kill millions, it took place against "a backdrop of persecution, mass execution, and incarceration clearly aimed at undermining Ukrainians as a national group".[81]"

[Minimalist]

The Irish make the same sorts of claims about the Potato Famine.

[EgoRaptor]

The Irish make the same sorts of claims about the Potato Famine.

Actually the Irish have a lot more credibility in their claims. The British could have easily sent in food, but didn't. Stalin's mismanagement meant that there was only enough food to ensure the Soviet elite were well fed. If Stalin hadn't taken all the food from the Ukrainians people would have started starving closer to home. Stalin probably figured that it was better the Ukrainians starve than that city-folk starve (or heaven forbid, the Soviet elite give up some of their food!).

An intentional attempt to genocide the Ukrainians it most certainly was not.

Also, my ass what the Ukrainian government claims, Ukraine is a German puppet-state!

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Also, 6 million people didn't die. Antisemitic fascists often try to claim that the shoah wasn't the worst genocide in history, this is because they want to undermine the tragedy of the shoah & pretend like it wasn't as bad as it was.

[là bạn điên]

Actually the Irish have a lot more credibility in their claims. The British could have easily sent in food, but didn't.

Actually 'The British' sent money, lots of money, to buy grain that was on the open market. Unfortunately it was given to the catholic church to disseminate and they spent the cash on Gold plate for church adornments and building church extensions. It was one of the first examples of a mass releif fund being set up. There is such a lot of bullshit spread by Republican Irish Nationalists about the 'Bruddish'

Stalin's mismanagement meant that there was only enough food to ensure the Soviet elite were well fed. If Stalin hadn't taken all the food from the Ukrainians people would have started starving closer to home. Stalin probably figured that it was better the Ukrainians starve than that city-folk starve (or heaven forbid, the Soviet elite give up some of their food!)

.

I suspect it was more than that. Ukraine had already just had a counter revolution under the anarchist Nestor Machno and this was a usefull opportunity to squash them

Also, my ass what the Ukrainian government claims, Ukraine is a German puppet-state!

This is getting Silly. Currently the Ukraine is under a Russian Puppet.

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Also, 6 million people didn't die. Antisemitic fascists often try to claim that the shoah wasn't the worst genocide in history, this is because they want to undermine the tragedy of the shoah & pretend like it wasn't as bad as it was.
[/quote]

The Shoah is an abominable atrocity but Mao killed even more people during his reign of terror. Frankly the 6 million figure is an understatement it is more like 8-10 million. Mao's ruthlessness lead to the deaths of 45 Million chinese

[EgoRaptor]

Actually the Irish have a lot more credibility in their claims. The British could have easily sent in food, but didn't.

Actually 'The British' sent money, lots of money, to buy grain that was on the open market. Unfortunately it was given to the catholic church to disseminate and they spent the cash on Gold plate for church adornments and building church extensions. It was one of the first examples of a mass releif fund being set up. There is such a lot of bullshit spread by Republican Irish Nationalists about the 'Bruddish'

Stalin's mismanagement meant that there was only enough food to ensure the Soviet elite were well fed. If Stalin hadn't taken all the food from the Ukrainians people would have started starving closer to home. Stalin probably figured that it was better the Ukrainians starve than that city-folk starve (or heaven forbid, the Soviet elite give up some of their food!)

.

I suspect it was more than that. Ukraine had already just had a counter revolution under the anarchist Nestor Machno and this was a usefull opportunity to squash them

Also, my ass what the Ukrainian government claims, Ukraine is a German puppet-state!

This is getting Silly. Currently the Ukraine is under a Russian Puppet.

---

Also, 6 million people didn't die. Antisemitic fascists often try to claim that the shoah wasn't the worst genocide in history, this is because they want to undermine the tragedy of the shoah & pretend like it wasn't as bad as it was.

The Shoah is an abominable atrocity but Mao killed even more people during his reign of terror. Frankly the 6 million figure is an understatement it is more like 8-10 million. Mao's ruthlessness lead to the deaths of 45 Million chinese
[/quote]Makhno was a supporter of the Russian government & friend of Lenin. He was driven out over a misunderstanding.