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So I got in trouble
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 6:54 am)pocaracas Wrote: You have confirmation bias working on different levels here.
One of them is your pre-recognition of the divine... you already believed in god, the god of christianity, the trinity... you were already aware of this god and believed it exists.

Then you had your dream.
Biasing from your prior belief led you to accept it as divine.

And then proceeded to search for more details.
Biasing from your dream made you find the details you wanted in the text.
It is not surprising that others may have written about similar experiences.

Take the famous light at the end of the tunnel experienced by some NDE patients.
If one associates this light with some afterlife place, and the others, previously attuned to acknowledge the divine, come across this interpretation, they will agree with the interpretation, thus strengthening their belief in that divinity.

So, is the light at the end of the tunnel an actual place or is it neurochemistry in the brain of a few people making them see that... or something else?
What seems more likely? (provided we have no actual way of measuring all this)


(January 30, 2014 at 11:43 pm)Drich Wrote: Confirmation bias looks for evidence that fits a forgone conclusion.

How does this definition fail to describe ask seek knock for the Holy Spirit? Because one need know nothing about God the Holy Spirit or Christianity, to receive the same direction and guidance found in the bible.
Wrong... one needs to know something... that's why someone wrote about it. Had no one wrote a word about it, would you know that you had to do it?
You need to know about the existence of some sort of a divine being... and you need to know that this methodology can lead you to further acknowledging it.
Given that, how do you differentiate the reality of this divinity from "it's all in your head"?

(January 30, 2014 at 11:43 pm)Drich Wrote: Matter of fact by the admission of many of you, the Christianity I repersent is unknown to most of you. To the point that I have been labeled a heretic by atheists...

So again, how can the term confirmation bias apply if the result is counter the forgone conclusion of what many of you would identify as main stream Christianity.

Well, you must be talking to someone else... to me, christianity is all the same thing... mainstream or mega delusional rabit-hole christianity... they all believe in the existence of a divinity which showed up as a human and got nailed.
I go further and lump christianity with islam, hinduism, buddhism, and any other dead religion...all based on the unsubstantiated assumption that a person's personality/individuality/knowledge/wisdom goes on existing, somehow, after the death of the biological body.
This is wishful thinking... and anything that confirms this wishful thinking is relying on confirmation bias.

What does my foundations of belief have to do with what God has offered any of you?

God has offered to give you your own experiences. Mine were for me, and intentionally mean nothing to do ourside of sparking an intrest to maybe have your own.
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 11:55 am)Drich Wrote:
(January 31, 2014 at 6:54 am)pocaracas Wrote: You have confirmation bias working on different levels here.
One of them is your pre-recognition of the divine... you already believed in god, the god of christianity, the trinity... you were already aware of this god and believed it exists.

Then you had your dream.
Biasing from your prior belief led you to accept it as divine.

And then proceeded to search for more details.
Biasing from your dream made you find the details you wanted in the text.
It is not surprising that others may have written about similar experiences.

Take the famous light at the end of the tunnel experienced by some NDE patients.
If one associates this light with some afterlife place, and the others, previously attuned to acknowledge the divine, come across this interpretation, they will agree with the interpretation, thus strengthening their belief in that divinity.

So, is the light at the end of the tunnel an actual place or is it neurochemistry in the brain of a few people making them see that... or something else?
What seems more likely? (provided we have no actual way of measuring all this)


Wrong... one needs to know something... that's why someone wrote about it. Had no one wrote a word about it, would you know that you had to do it?
You need to know about the existence of some sort of a divine being... and you need to know that this methodology can lead you to further acknowledging it.
Given that, how do you differentiate the reality of this divinity from "it's all in your head"?


Well, you must be talking to someone else... to me, christianity is all the same thing... mainstream or mega delusional rabit-hole christianity... they all believe in the existence of a divinity which showed up as a human and got nailed.
I go further and lump christianity with islam, hinduism, buddhism, and any other dead religion...all based on the unsubstantiated assumption that a person's personality/individuality/knowledge/wisdom goes on existing, somehow, after the death of the biological body.
This is wishful thinking... and anything that confirms this wishful thinking is relying on confirmation bias.

What does my foundations of belief have to do with what God has offered any of you?

God has offered to give you your own experiences. Mine were for me, and intentionally mean nothing to do ourside of sparking an intrest to maybe have your own.

You mean to say you got all the evidence you wanted without A.S.K.ing?
Now, that's a bit disingenuous... do as I say, not as I do, huh?
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 7:46 am)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: You have to make two foregone conclusions before a/s/k can work, according to your own words.
1. God exists
2. If you approach him the right way, he will prove his existence to you
At this point we are not talking about A/S/K We are talking about asking God to give you another mustard seed.

Quote:If you a/s/k and you don't have at least the faith of a mustard seed, again according to you, you'll get only silence.
So again ask for one. (God give me the mustard seed I need to properly A/S/K)

This does not take faith in God. Just enough humility to sit in silence away from everyone and read that little prayer i just left for you. and keep asking till you get it.


Quote:The fact that a/s/k can only work if you start out having faith makes it impossible for a/s/k to provide a legitimate means for someone without faith to acquire it. It only works if you've already decided it will. It is a deliberately-designed example of confirmation bias.
ah, no.
One does not need a forgone conclusion to A/S/K. Just humility.
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 12:01 pm)Drich Wrote: One does not need a forgone conclusion to A/S/K. Just humility.
And the working assumption that there is a god actually listening.

The method is flawed right off the bat!
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 11:59 am)pocaracas Wrote: You mean to say you got all the evidence you wanted without A.S.K.ing?
Now, that's a bit disingenuous... do as I say, not as I do, huh?
What makes you think that?

(January 31, 2014 at 12:03 pm)pocaracas Wrote:
(January 31, 2014 at 12:01 pm)Drich Wrote: One does not need a forgone conclusion to A/S/K. Just humility.
And the working assumption that there is a god actually listening.

The method is flawed right off the bat!

how so?
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 12:07 pm)Drich Wrote:
(January 31, 2014 at 11:59 am)pocaracas Wrote: You mean to say you got all the evidence you wanted without A.S.K.ing?
Now, that's a bit disingenuous... do as I say, not as I do, huh?
What makes you think that?
You keep telling us to ASK...
And when I say that your own path was biased and show it to you, you say it has nothing to do with ASKing...

(January 31, 2014 at 12:07 pm)Drich Wrote:
(January 31, 2014 at 12:03 pm)pocaracas Wrote: And the working assumption that there is a god actually listening.

The method is flawed right off the bat!

how so?

Assume god exists -> ASK -> get a mental confirmation that god exists -> confirmation bias appears to be in action -> just another loony.

Assume nothing -> get confirmation that a god exists -> write paper -> Be on the news -> collect million dollars.


The first scenario requires your mustard's seed of faith...
The second requires none.

You've been told this a number of times in this thread alone... and in other threads lots of other times... but still... it's like you don't pay attention.
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 29, 2014 at 2:14 pm)Luckie Wrote: So if they believe as you do, they get everlasting life with you.
In the quote you highlighted I did not make this statement. i paraphrased John 3:16. that has nothing to do with my personal beliefs. It is a promise of Christ.

Quote: Oh that is unless they're true christians, not just sincere ones, and unless you don't want to mix with them. Because you totally won't be in heaven with murderers, nope.


And yet the bible says that all that believe in Christ as gods son shall not perish but have eternal life.
Christ also said this in mat 7:
What People Do Shows What They Are
15 “Be careful of false prophets. They come to you and look gentle like sheep. But they are really dangerous like wolves. 16 You will know these people because of what they do. Good things don’t come from people who are bad, just as grapes don’t come from thornbushes, and figs don’t come from thorny weeds. 17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, and bad trees produce bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 You will know these false people by what they do.[a]

21 “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. 22 On that last Day many will call me Lord. They will say, ‘Lord, Lord, by the power of your name we spoke for God. And by your name we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ 23 Then I will tell those people clearly, ‘Get away from me, you people who do wrong. I never knew you.’

It appears that 'belief' as per Jesus' understanding of it requires more than a simple acknoweledgement.



Quote:Also Ridicule is your forte, here's one example of many, many many..


Your numerous requests of how church was for KSA last sunday are obviously nawt in good faith because you accompany them with ridicule as seen above.

Denegration of others/Plain out rudeness in the midst of someone genuinely trying to speak to you

par example:
KSA Made a Commitment, that if I could provide Him Book chapter and Verse that show Christ claiming to be God, he would start going to church.

I kept my end of the deal and even broke the message down to each of the core elements and examined all of it with him.

My asking him about church was well within ear shot of him calling me a liar, stupid, or some attempt to dismiss what i had to say.

Quote:and then there's this..


"To those without the Law I became one who was out the law (but not really because i still served and yielded to Christ.)"


Drich Wrote:http://atheistforums.org/thread-22249-po...#pid555344

Sorry alpo, If your civility and intergrity can be given away so cheaply i don't want it. Maybe you should take a break from all of this for a while, gather up yourself respect, and put it all back together. I'll be here when you get back.
ROFLOL

I wonder why you did not post what she said that Inspired that quote. My words here were not mean as an insult, but a well restrained attempt to try and get (Apophenia at the time) to take a breath. I had appearently provoked her to much anger and wrath. Normally I relish in the idea that I have taken one of you to the point where you can not discuss the subject matter topically. Not because I like the arguement, but because I know your ablity to reason is at an end, and your looking to red herring your way out of a corner you have painted yourself into.

This was not the case here. This was a case that I provoked someone to such a state of wrath, they were willing to say anything to try and hurt or lash out. Not my goal. I don't mind chaos, so long is there is a point or direction. Apophenia lost all control and direction, and I dont want to be the source of that.

Quote:Meaning: là bạn điên is the word for butthole or turd...
ROFLOL[/u]


(Someone tell him i am making fun of his screen name, before he asks another stupid question.)
ROFLOL I'm sorry but that's funny i don't care who you are that is funny right there. It's got everything, farts, poop, buttholes and making someone look stupid for asking a poop, fart, butthole/God question.


Quote:Self admittedly being rough on people because of some conspiratorically conceived notions that you have despite being told otherwise at every turn, then turning around and doing it again.
What are you talking about? Each and every example you made was taken from before I made a vow not to nickname you people.

Quote:Don't all your conspiracy theories get tiring for that brain of yours?
You do know what a conspiracy is don't you? It is where two or more people plot to do something harmful or illeagal.

That has nothing to do with the quote you left that I made about me being hard on brakeman (for catching him lying or expastor for what i suspected to be lying as well.)
Brakeman went of CF.com and said he was a 14 year old boy and was so smart/christians were so stupid that at 14 he could dismantle any and all arguements about this religion. Then he came here opened an account just to brag about it. That is not a conspiricy theory. That is a liar being caught in the act.

Same with xpastor. I gave the reasons and examples that made me think he was lying as well.

again not a conspiracy theory as he acted alone.

Quote:Why do you love it, so? Could it be that you enjoy trouncing on us non-believers because you *shocked voice like it?
The irony. You all claim to only speak where the evidence leads, and 90% of what you believe is based on faith. then I get to point that out which destroys the idea that your's is an evidence based belief system which underminds everything you believe. Which makes my job much easier.


(November 25, 2013 at 11:10 pm)Drich Wrote: You do know in this soceity selling people is not legal. That said, if we live in the slavery soceity I would say make an

offer.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:57 pm)Drich Wrote: http://atheistforums.org/thread-22220-po...#pid549766

Not a hard choice to make. God set up a soceity that allowed for slavery, and condemned homosexuality. Therefore slavery is

not as bad as homosexuality. The fact that soceity says that your intolerance should be reversed only speaks to declining

'morality' in soceity.

Whether that makes me a slave, slave owner or none of the above if we were forced to pick one of the two societies I will

pick slavery.

Slavery is not intrinsically bad. It is what man does with slavery that makes it evil..


It depends on what they did.




There is a series of beating that are allowed before death is mandatory. If the beatings are done right then death can be

averted in most cases. :dead horse:
So?

Drich Wrote:I did not say sincerity was not apart of the equasion. i said sincerity was not the key. the key is knocking. Yes one has to

be sincere, but in the story what gets the man in bed up and willing to give the neighbor what he wants? It was the man's

persistant knocking. Something no one i have spoken with has done.

One has to be willing to knock until he gets what he/she is seeking. Every one of you who says he has A/S/K has put a time

limit on their efforts. I have been intentionally A/S/K'ing for 20 years and I still knock for more. Most of you

believe growing up in the church and doing church stuff is the same thing, so when you do honestly ask or seek for a week or

two and get nothing you believe there is no God.


What if your unbelief was apart of the answer to your prayer? In that God has to wipe away all of the religious non biblical

crap we clutter our hearts with and then rebuild solid biblically based theology in us so we can see hear and interact with

Him.. But the thing is, inorder to get from religious christianity to biblical Christianity one must see how religious

christianity fails, and it is only through knocking that we can build the structure that we need to get to God. Because

knocking will take that sincere heart and deliver it to the stablity needed to hear and work with the holy Spirit.

But when you Ask and seek but do not knock you only get 1/2 of the prayer answered. Your false understanding of God is taken

away but you do not rebuild

So again the Key to A/S/K is the knocking not one's sincerity



If your goal is to complete a 1000 peice puzzle and you work on it for 3 days, but do not finish, is the puzzle picture

complete? "Do you see a problem with that?" Of course not, why? because you did not finish the puzzle no matter how many

days you worked on it. what will it take to finish the picture? is there a certain amount of time all should be complete?

no, it takes what it takes. some may get the picture sooner than others, but in the end if you quit before the puzzle is

complete then your picture will be incomplete no matter how much time you worked on it.

Like wise how many day can one put on building a bridge between themselves and God? If you do not finish this bridge will

you be able to cross it? no. When can one cross a bridge? When the gap is completely span. How long will this take? How big

is the gap between you and God? The larger the gap the longer this process will take. So who can say he has spent enough

time on their 'bridge' if the bridge is not complete?


That is not what I said. Because I know the medthod in which God answers A/S/K, is not by giving us what we expect.

<<<luckie wrote [oh no? I thought you based your whole unwaivering belief upon what god's given you and shown you, that you know what to expect in the future, and even said all your prayers are "ALWAYS" answered (even praying we get cancer or aids)]>>>


Why? Because we ALL have a bad understanding of God, and if God were to give us what we are looking for in the way we are

looking for it, it would only reinforce our misunderstanding of God. God does not want us to have this dark ages

understanding of Him.

All of it seems a bit rich for me, sorry.


[/quote]

It's all basic human nature. what happens when you positivly reward a child's negitive behavior?
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 12:15 pm)pocaracas Wrote: You keep telling us to ASK...
And when I say that your own path was biased and show it to you, you say it has nothing to do with ASKing...
What makes you think I was not A/S/K the only way I knew how?

Quote:Assume god exists -> ASK -> get a mental confirmation that god exists -> confirmation bias appears to be in action -> just another loony.
Assume nothing.> A/S/K as pointed out in Luke 11. > Get whatever confirmation you yourself specifcly needs to establish and maintain belief, apart from the religious ideas you have placed on God.

Quote:Assume nothing -> get confirmation that a god exists -> write paper -> Be on the news -> collect million dollars.
Assume nothing -> get confirmation that a god exists -> write paper -> Get ridiculed for writting a paper, because the system of education we have will never accept God in any form, because it was designed not to.

Quote:You've been told this a number of times in this thread alone... and in other threads lots of other times... but still... it's like you don't pay attention.
I think your catching on.
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 10:53 am)Drich Wrote: Your approach is that of one who believes God will be static through out this process. This is not the case. When you do things right (Follow HIS instructions) He is the that will interact with you. Not me, the writter of your autobiography or anyone else. I'm not selling a religion here. I am trying to put you on a track that bring you directly before God. If God does not have the power or inclination to follow up on what He has promised then he is no god and not worthy of worship.

That's a big ol' dodge, given that we were originally talking about Tyre, and how you've comprehensively failed to "stomp" our contentions regarding it, as you've initially claimed.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply
RE: So I got in trouble
(January 31, 2014 at 1:54 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(January 31, 2014 at 10:53 am)Drich Wrote: Your approach is that of one who believes God will be static through out this process. This is not the case. When you do things right (Follow HIS instructions) He is the that will interact with you. Not me, the writter of your autobiography or anyone else. I'm not selling a religion here. I am trying to put you on a track that bring you directly before God. If God does not have the power or inclination to follow up on what He has promised then he is no god and not worthy of worship.

That's a big ol' dodge, given that we were originally talking about Tyre, and how you've comprehensively failed to "stomp" our contentions regarding it, as you've initially claimed.
I was actually talking to mini about his failed arguement of tyre. That his city was the thrid or even fourth encarnation of that city (depending on where you start counting.)

His arguement states that the last version of Tyre was the same as Ezekiel's prophecied tyre. It wasn't plain and simple. the two citys share a name, they don't even share the same space.

Jerusalem although is not the same city it was back then, at least it has not moved, and therefore can be identified as the same city. This is not the case with tyre. it foundations were move 4 times making each encarnation a seperate city from the last.

Ezekiel's prophesy did not say there would never be another city name tyre, only that His city would be completely destroyed. it was. The damage was so extensive they could not build where the first city was.

Thus stomping mini's arguement.
Reply



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