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Evidence God Exists
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 (March 16, 2010 at 3:35 am)kollkolen Wrote: The universe is neither old enough nor large enough for life to have spontaneously begun on its own. So how old or large should a universe be for life to begin on its own?
Best regards,
Leo van Miert Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you 
 (March 16, 2010 at 6:42 am)leo-rcc Wrote:(March 16, 2010 at 3:35 am)kollkolen Wrote: The universe is neither old enough nor large enough for life to have spontaneously begun on its own. Even granting infinite size and age... what has that to do with life 'beginning' on its 'own'? :S Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
 RE: Evidence God Exists
March 16, 2010 at 8:47 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2010 at 8:47 am by Frank.)
(March 16, 2010 at 3:35 am)kollkolen Wrote: The universe is neither old enough nor large enough for life to have spontaneously begun on its own. The very age of the universe requires that an outside force must have at least initiated the process of life in the universe, and the law of cause and effect dictates that the everything that exists within the universe must have come into being as the result of something outside of the universe. Whether or not this outside force is intelligent or conscious, only one's personal experience can prove or disprove. Hogwash.  RE: Evidence God Exists
March 16, 2010 at 11:14 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2010 at 11:18 am by Joe Bloe.)
It is possible that some Creationists have learned the "Universe isn't old enough" idea from their leaders and now they repeat it to others without really knowing what it means (except - the Universe isn't old enough).
There are some figures behind it though: The Universe is 10^17 seconds old, and Creationists are currently declaring that the probability for life forming spontaneously is about one in 10^40,000. They compare the two numbers and decide "there hasn't been enough time yet". If atoms had been colliding with each other, dozens of times every second, forming molecules, breaking apart and reforming as other molecules, there still hasn't been enough time for life to appear (because the 10^40,000 odds make it impossible) - so god did it. Of course the 10^40,000 figure is a complete fabrication, but that's Creationists for you. Tell the lie often enough and people will believe it. It's like rolling three dice and hoping for a triple six. The odds are 215/1 against success and the Creationist asks how many times the dice have been rolled. The player says "eighteen times". "Ah ha", says the wise Creationist, "You haven't had enough time to roll a triple six yet." It may happen though, that the player rolled a triple six on the very first throw, and another one of the fifth throw, and maybe even another one of the eleventh throw. The odds may be 215/1 against a triple six, but that doesn't mean you have to roll the dice 216 times before you get a triple six. But back to my main point: Creationists are currently using the figures 10^17 and 10^40,000 to hoodwink the flock - and the plan seems to be working! 
Watson poof is for illusionist.Creation is an act of thoughtful purpose an act of work. Creation is not an act of deception but an act of bring into existance that which did not exist.You ask why God would create man with intelligence, to put His stamp upon His work so no other could claim His work.Why would an all powerful God use evolution which would be slow and imperfect to give man intelligence.Why would an all knowing God use evolution which would be a game of chance to bring intelligence to man.God gave an intelligence to animals that is a reaction to stimuli such as hunger,reproduction,survival,the enjoyment of life,comunication and so on.God also gave this type of intelligence to man but He also gave us the ability to understand,the ability of abstract thought and the ability to exercise freewill.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
 (March 16, 2010 at 3:35 am)kollkolen Wrote: The universe is neither old enough nor large enough for life to have spontaneously begun on its own. The very age of the universe requires that an outside force must have at least initiated the process of life in the universe, and the law of cause and effect dictates that the everything that exists within the universe must have come into being as the result of something outside of the universe. Whether or not this outside force is intelligent or conscious, only one's personal experience can prove or disprove. Bland assertions accomplish little. How old do you think the "universe" might be?  (March 16, 2010 at 12:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Watson poof is for illusionist.Creation is an act of thoughtful purpose an act of work. Creation is not an act of deception but an act of bring into existance that which did not exist.You ask why God would create man with intelligence, to put His stamp upon His work so no other could claim His work.Why would an all powerful God use evolution which would be slow and imperfect to give man intelligence.Why would an all knowing God use evolution which would be a game of chance to bring intelligence to man.God gave an intelligence to animals that is a reaction to stimuli such as hunger,reproduction,survival,the enjoyment of life,comunication and so on.God also gave this type of intelligence to man but He also gave us the ability to understand,the ability of abstract thought and the ability to exercise freewill. And yet you have no evidence that any of what you say is true. I could substitute "Lucky the leprechaun" wherever you have the word "God" and your statements would be just as valid.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?  (March 16, 2010 at 12:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Watson poof is for illusionist.Creation is an act of thoughtful purpose an act of work. Creation is not an act of deception but an act of bring into existance that which did not exist.You ask why God would create man with intelligence, to put His stamp upon His work so no other could claim His work.Why would an all powerful God use evolution which would be slow and imperfect to give man intelligence.Why would an all knowing God use evolution which would be a game of chance to bring intelligence to man.God gave an intelligence to animals that is a reaction to stimuli such as hunger,reproduction,survival,the enjoyment of life,comunication and so on.God also gave this type of intelligence to man but He also gave us the ability to understand,the ability of abstract thought and the ability to exercise freewill. Ray Comfort is a smart man.  RE: Evidence God Exists
March 16, 2010 at 12:22 pm
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2010 at 12:27 pm by Ace Otana.)
(March 16, 2010 at 12:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Watson poof is for illusionist.Creation is an act of thoughtful purpose an act of work. Creation is not an act of deception but an act of bring into existance that which did not exist.You ask why god would create man with intelligence, to put His stamp upon His work so no other could claim His work.Why would an all powerful god use evolution which would be slow and imperfect to give man intelligence.Why would an all knowing god use evolution which would be a game of chance to bring intelligence to man.god gave an intelligence to animals that is a reaction to stimuli such as hunger,reproduction,survival,the enjoyment of life,comunication and so on.god also gave this type of intelligence to man but He also gave us the ability to understand,the ability of abstract thought and the ability to exercise freewill. And your evidence for all of this is?  Noticed you put a capital G everytime you spelt god. Thought I'd remove that because I don't think it/he/thing deserves it. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity. Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist. You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them. (March 16, 2010 at 12:22 pm)Ace Wrote:(March 16, 2010 at 12:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Watson poof is for illusionist.Creation is an act of thoughtful purpose an act of work. Creation is not an act of deception but an act of bring into existance that which did not exist.You ask why god would create man with intelligence, to put His stamp upon His work so no other could claim His work.Why would an all powerful god use evolution which would be slow and imperfect to give man intelligence.Why would an all knowing god use evolution which would be a game of chance to bring intelligence to man.god gave an intelligence to animals that is a reaction to stimuli such as hunger,reproduction,survival,the enjoyment of life,comunication and so on.god also gave this type of intelligence to man but He also gave us the ability to understand,the ability of abstract thought and the ability to exercise freewill. You could've proofread and edited it as well, it's rough reading that incoherent wall of mishmash. 
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