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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 7:57 pm by Mudhammam.)
(February 25, 2014 at 7:28 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 7:18 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I'd like an explanation for your claim that killing children is justifiable.
Go.
A perfect judge can make that call.
Amazing. Christians, if they are sincere and consistent, cannot actually determine if slaughtering children is morally wrong or not, unless there is a "perfect" judge to evaluate the circumstances.
Sorry but I'll favor rational imperfect judgment on this one. Yes, slaughtering children is wrong. Even when your God "tells" people to do otherwise.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 7:58 pm by Simon Moon.)
(February 25, 2014 at 7:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 7:51 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: When you hear about someone being convicted of killing their kids or someone else, and they claim that 'God' told them to, do you actually believe that they may be telling the truth?
No
How are you able to make that judgement?
You admitted that you would kill if 'God' told you to, given that you can be sure it was indeed 'God'.
How do you know they weren't privileged enough to receive an actual communication from 'God' ?
How would you go about testing the difference between a real communication from 'God', and something else?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:00 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 7:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No
How are you able to make that judgement?
You admitted that you would kill if 'God' told you to, given that you can be sure it was indeed 'God'.
How do you know they weren't privileged enough to receive an actual communication from 'God' ?
How would you go about testing the difference between a real communication from 'God', and something else?
I guess it would seem he/she needs "perfect" judgment to know if God is ever actually communicating with us (which he/she believes God is).
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:04 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Sorry but I'll favor rational imperfect judgment on this one. Yes, slaughtering children is wrong. Even when your God "tells" people to do otherwise.
So you are saying that you know better than a perfect judge?
I say you're a dangerous person
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:08 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm by Mudhammam.)
(February 25, 2014 at 8:04 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Sorry but I'll favor rational imperfect judgment on this one. Yes, slaughtering children is wrong. Even when your God "tells" people to do otherwise.
So you are saying that you know better than a perfect judge?
I say you're a dangerous person
Oh, no, I wouldn't say I'm perfect but my judgment is definitely better than the person who thinks they're hearing voices or seeing visions of a "perfect" judge that commands an army to slaughter children. I think it's dangerous to be unsure if murdering children is wrong.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: How are you able to make that judgement?
You admitted that you would kill if 'God' told you to, given that you can be sure it was indeed 'God'.
How do you know they weren't privileged enough to receive an actual communication from 'God' ?
How would you go about testing the difference between a real communication from 'God', and something else?
You have raised a completely new question: would I know if a third person was acting out the will of God.
I made the judgement from a perspective I share with you: I wouldn't know.
If we're factoring in a second miracle: that 1. the person was instructed by God and 2. I knew this, then yes, I would know that this is a just killing.
How would I test? I don't have the slightest idea. We are talking supernatural events that I have zero experience of. I'd have as much idea as you I guess.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:13 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 8:14 pm by Mudhammam.)
(February 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: How would I test? I don't have the slightest idea. We are talking supernatural events that I have zero experience of. I'd have as much idea as you I guess.
I thought God communicates with you though?  Can't you just ask him?
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:16 pm
(February 25, 2014 at 8:08 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Oh, no, I wouldn't say I'm perfect but my judgment is definitely better than the person who thinks they're hearing voices or seeing visions of a "perfect" judge that commands an army to slaughter children. I think it's dangerous to be unsure if murdering children is wrong.
I would agree with you, if I didn't know that the story involved a perfect judge and an imperfect people. The choice to deliberately misconstrue the story is yours.
Given simplistic values, you and I are identical.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 8:20 pm by Mudhammam.)
(February 25, 2014 at 8:16 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 25, 2014 at 8:08 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Oh, no, I wouldn't say I'm perfect but my judgment is definitely better than the person who thinks they're hearing voices or seeing visions of a "perfect" judge that commands an army to slaughter children. I think it's dangerous to be unsure if murdering children is wrong.
I would agree with you, if I didn't know that the story involved a perfect judge and an imperfect people. The choice to deliberately misconstrue the story is yours.
Given simplistic values, you and I are identical.
So on Christian ethics, murdering kids is perfectly okay, JUST SO LONG AS THE PERFECT JUDGE INSTRUCTS IT? Okay... 
Wait, I forgot, then it's not "murder" anymore, it's just "killing" kids.
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RE: Christians, would you kill for God?
February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2014 at 8:22 pm by fr0d0.)
(February 25, 2014 at 8:13 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I thought God communicates with you though? Can't you just ask him?
I can just ask him like you can just ask him.
I think you're letting your imagination run away with you 
(February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: So on Christian ethics, murder is perfectly okay, JUST SO LONG AS THE PERFECT JUDGE INSTRUCTS IT? Okay...
A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.
Your own emotion has no bearing on justice
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