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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 11:49 am
So no actual input, huh? Not that I expected it. I guess I'm still new enough that this is disappointing. Inoculation....complete.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 11:53 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2014 at 11:53 am by Alex K.)
This Joseph Prince guy seems to be suffering from severe Stockholm syndrome. to paraphrase: "if look at all the children dying, that's because of our sin, God didn't want this". Go to a counselor, they can help people in such abusive relationships to get out of them
Man are we lucky that it's just a demented fairy tale.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 11:54 am
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: Atheists say "If God existed, he's evil because he lets bad things happen."
However the cause of sin is that he gave us all the greatest gift, free will. We can do what we want, he does not force anything upon our mind. If we choose to live a life of sin, it is our choosing. Man choose sin when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they, by their own choice brought sin upon the world. God hates sin, but he said evil deeds must be punished, and he cannot go back on his word. So he sent his only son to die for our sins, to show us the price of our sin and to accept his free gift. God hates sin, but it is a product of man because he gave man the ability to do what he wants until death, when he is judged for what he's done. Since all sin, only accepting Christ in your heart can make you acceptant of God's Kingdom. Man choose sin, and God did all he could do to help them be absolved of it without invading their free will.
So atheists, argue over the existant of God all you want, but do not say he cannot exist because evil exists. The bible explains why it exists completely logically.
If I entirely grant you the win on this, I am still left with no evidence that the God you posit is real. Atheists don't believe in ANY God or gods. The bar for believing your God is real is a little bit higher than 'it's not logically impossible for him to exist'.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 11:57 am
(February 27, 2014 at 11:53 am)Alex K Wrote: This Joseph Prince guy seems to be suffering from severe Stockholm syndrome. to paraphrase: "if look at all the children dying, that's because of our sin, God didn't want this". Go to a counselor, they can help people in such abusive relationships to get out of them
Man are we lucky that it's just a demented fairy tale. Right? And it begs the question, hard. So I sin, God kills children. But he doesn't want it to happen. So he's: incapable of stopping it? malevolent? not a reasonable explanation at all for what I see and experience in the world.
I'll take C.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 12:04 pm
(February 27, 2014 at 11:57 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: (February 27, 2014 at 11:53 am)Alex K Wrote: This Joseph Prince guy seems to be suffering from severe Stockholm syndrome. to paraphrase: "if look at all the children dying, that's because of our sin, God didn't want this". Go to a counselor, they can help people in such abusive relationships to get out of them
Man are we lucky that it's just a demented fairy tale. Right? And it begs the question, hard. So I sin, God kills children. But he doesn't want it to happen. So he's: incapable of stopping it? malevolent? not a reasonable explanation at all for what I see and experience in the world.
I'll take C.
It's not God's fault, he really is a good guy - he just had a very bad childhood.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 12:06 pm
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2014 at 12:23 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: Atheists say "If God existed, he's evil because he lets bad things happen."
However the cause of sin is that he gave us all the greatest gift, free will. We can do what we want, he does not force anything upon our mind. If we choose to live a life of sin, it is our choosing. Man choose sin when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they, by their own choice brought sin upon the world.
Who put the forbidden fruit into the Garden? And why? Who allowed the Serpent to tempt Eve? And why? Who visited the consequences of their transgression on their descendants as well as them? How could they make an informed choice prior to being aware of good and evil?
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: God hates sin, but he said evil deeds must be punished, and he cannot go back on his word.
Creating a creature to tempt innocents into evil, or even to create a creature who would someday become such a tempter is clearly an evil act. Letting it have access to what were, in effect, children, is clearly an evil act (of omission, at least). Apparently God only hates evil deeds when its other people performing them.
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: So he sent his only son to die for our sins, to show us the price of our sin and to accept his free gift.
I don't have to kill anyone to give them a free gift, and they don't have to do anything to get it. This 'free gift' requires believing in absurdities and devoting your life to service of a deity. You seem to have a peculiar idea of what the words 'free' and 'gift' mean.
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: God hates sin, but it is a product of man because he gave man the ability to do what he wants until death, when he is judged for what he's done.
If we invented sin, what's with the Serpent?
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: Since all sin, only accepting Christ in your heart can make you acceptant of God's Kingdom. Man choose sin, and God did all he could do to help them be absolved of it without invading their free will.
He's omnipotent and all he could do to grant us absolution was to send his son on a one-time tour of part of the Middle East and leave us only with copies of copies of accounts of his message? It's too much to ask for a message that could NOT have been fabricated by mere humans? At least then we'd be arguing over whether he's really the creator of the universe or just an advanced alien, not whether he exists at all.
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: So atheists, argue over the existant of God all you want, but do not say he cannot exist because evil exists. The bible explains why it exists completely logically.
Thanks for the opportunity to deconstruct that particular claim once again.
(February 27, 2014 at 4:19 am)fr0d0 Wrote: (February 26, 2014 at 10:47 pm)futilethewinds Wrote: What does that have to do with the post you quoted?
It's a literalist interpretation of the bible he's taking seriously.
Maybe he's just taking the tens of millions of Americans who are literalists, probably including the OP, seriously. How much time are you going to spend addressing random posts as if they are talking about your personal theology?
(February 27, 2014 at 5:48 am)JesusLover1 Wrote: Watch this atheists:
I'm not able to view that from work, but thanks for not being a one-post wonder.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 12:25 pm
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2014 at 12:26 pm by Simon Moon.)
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: Atheists say "If God existed, he's evil because he lets bad things happen."
However the cause of sin is that he gave us all the greatest gift, free will. We can do what we want, he does not force anything upon our mind. If we choose to live a life of sin, it is our choosing. Man choose sin when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they, by their own choice brought sin upon the world. God hates sin, but he said evil deeds must be punished, and he cannot go back on his word. So he sent his only son to die for our sins, to show us the price of our sin and to accept his free gift. God hates sin, but it is a product of man because he gave man the ability to do what he wants until death, when he is judged for what he's done. Since all sin, only accepting Christ in your heart can make you acceptant of God's Kingdom. Man choose sin, and God did all he could do to help them be absolved of it without invading their free will.
So atheists, argue over the existant of God all you want, but do not say he cannot exist because evil exists. The bible explains why it exists completely logically.
Where's the 'free will' when an earthquake and tsunami kills 30,000 people? Or a volcano destroys a town and it's inhabitants?
What about when 'God' hardened Pharaoh's heart when Pharaoh wanted to free the slaves? Wasn't 'God' manipulating Pharaoh's free will?
Why did god have to sacrifice himself (his son) to himself in order to absolve us of 'sin'? It's his universe, his rules. Why not just forgive us? It was within his power to to so without the sacrifice, right.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 1:17 pm
(February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: Atheists say "If God existed, he's evil because he lets bad things happen."
However the cause of sin is that he gave us all the greatest gift, free will. We can do what we want, he does not force anything upon our mind. If we choose to live a life of sin, it is our choosing. Man choose sin when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they, by their own choice brought sin upon the world. God hates sin, but he said evil deeds must be punished, and he cannot go back on his word. So he sent his only son to die for our sins, to show us the price of our sin and to accept his free gift. God hates sin, but it is a product of man because he gave man the ability to do what he wants until death, when he is judged for what he's done. Since all sin, only accepting Christ in your heart can make you acceptant of God's Kingdom. Man choose sin, and God did all he could do to help them be absolved of it without invading their free will.
So atheists, argue over the existant of God all you want, but do not say he cannot exist because evil exists. The bible explains why it exists completely logically.
did you know boobytrap backwards is party boob.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 1:39 pm
(February 27, 2014 at 1:17 pm)Asimm Wrote: did you know boobytrap backwards is party boob.
![[Image: Nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=static2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20110721153341%2Flogopedia%2Fimages%2F2%2F2c%2FNbc_the_more_you_know.jpg)
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The Flaw of Atheism
February 27, 2014 at 2:07 pm
Y'know maybe it kinda doesn't make sense that sin didn't exist till man sinned, yet the serpent that tricked them already existed. But my parents recommend me listen to Joseph Prince above reading the Bible, since they say I am not at the state of mind to understand the Bible yet. I have OCD, and they say right now reading the bible without any context is one of the worst things I can do right now.
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