Claiming god is perfect

[Chad32]

People back then probably thought that this was the absolute best thing to do. My god is better than your god, so you'd better do what my god says. In fact, it's the worst thing they could have done. Claiming he's perfect, all knowing, all present, and such actually demands that he be held to a higher standard than anything else. It means we can't cut him any slack for things we disagree with in the bible.

I can go on about how bad Yahweh is, especially in the old testament, but that's mostly because people today believe that he's some perfect paragon of virtue. If he was just some guy that wasn't all powerful, and nobody thought he was perfect, and that Satan was just as powerful as he was, it would help explain some things and at least help me sympathize with him more.

Jesus was a notably humble person, and if the followers kept up with that humbleness, then it would help wash away mistakes that many modern people notice. Many outdated morals, actions, and commandments. Saying he's the infallible, unchanging, perfect deity just makes the bad parts stand out more, and we can't just say well he made a mistake and he apologized for it, and he's trying to do better, but the evil in the world is a tough burden to bare. We can't say he's under a lot of stress because he's supposedly all powerful. We can't say he has trouble communicating and getting to all our problems because he's supposedly all present. We can't say he just didn't know any better because he's supposedly all knowing.

Bottom line I guess is that the higher a pedestal you put something, the more likely it is to fall, and limitless perfection is probably not the pedestal anyone should put anything. It leaves no room for error, and many people can see many errors in the bible. That was probably the biggest mistake in the whole religion.

[Bob Kelso]

While it wouldn't change my mind on things, as it's not evidence, if Jews and Christians had admitted their god was learning and kind of a capricious douchenozzle then I would have more respect... But only a little.

[Bittersmart]

Aside from the contradiction of having an all-perfect god that does hypocritical, unethical things, creating an omnipotent, omniscient god was a wrong move, too. I mean, people would have no free will in that case, and so this creator god is literally creating new people knowing what they're going to do, including going to hell. So, when Christians tell me, "You're going to go to hell", I respond with, "Your god made me this way, apparently. Talk to him about it."

[Tonus]

The impression I get isn't that the OT writers saw god as omni-anything. He was just the toughest bastard on the block. They seem to write about him as if he were a bully, who picks a nation for his own and either promises to kick their enemies' asses (if his chosen people are loyal) or promises to kick their asses (if they aren't loyal enough). But that seems to be the way it was at the time: with no actual gods showing up to do anything at all, a nation could attribute its victories to "our god was better than yours" or attribute its losses to "our god punished us for not worshiping him enough." Note that there was never a time when they were going to admit that "your god was the better god."

Over time the character is bound to become tougher because no one wants to walk back a positive claim. If a writer decided that Yahweh was powerful enough to lift two heavy boulders, then the next writer would have to tell the story of how he juggled three of them. And the next writer tells us that he juggled three of them while killing aliens with his laser-beam eyes. And so on. Before long he's omni-this and omni-that and the only ass he can't kick is his own, but only because he doesn't really want to.

[Chad32]

While it wouldn't change my mind on things, as it's not evidence, if Jews and Christians had admitted their god was learning and kind of a capricious douchenozzle then I would have more respect... But only a little.

Yeah, not saying I would worship him if it was stated that he wasn't perfect and all powerful and stuff, but I wouldn't bash him as much. If Jesus said that the things in the old testament were wrong, and his dad apologized, and he wanted to start over without killing practically everyone first, then I wouldn't harp on the old testament nearly as much. That's still a ways away from worshiping him, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Bittersmart]

The impression I get isn't that the OT writers saw god as omni-anything. He was just the toughest bastard on the block. They seem to write about him as if he were a bully, who picks a nation for his own and either promises to kick their enemies' asses (if his chosen people are loyal) or promises to kick their asses (if they aren't loyal enough). But that seems to be the way it was at the time: with no actual gods showing up to do anything at all, a nation could attribute its victories to "our god was better than yours" or attribute its losses to "our god punished us for not worshiping him enough." Note that there was never a time when they were going to admit that "your god was the better god."

Over time the character is bound to become tougher because no one wants to walk back a positive claim. If a writer decided that Yahweh was powerful enough to lift two heavy boulders, then the next writer would have to tell the story of how he juggled three of them. And the next writer tells us that he juggled three of them while killing aliens with his laser-beam eyes. And so on. Before long he's omni-this and omni-that and the only ass he can't kick is his own, but only because he doesn't really want to.

Lmao. I think that is a perfect description of how religion evolved over time. There was no burning lake of fire in the Old Testament, was there? But now there is....so, you better not piss off that god!

[Rabb Allah]

Perfection or Kamal/كمال is very vital as an attribute of god. Perfection is the ability to either fulfill a desired purpose or be able to counter any possible opposition in the self. God is perfect in some cases because it has no definable qualities and is a total of anything. So in this point of view God is perfect because the label cannot be applied to something without natural existence.
Perfection is a word that only exists because of the inability to fulfill a desire or handle an issue.

[Chad32]

There have been lots of gods that people worshiped, and perfection doesn't seem to be a necessary part of them. Yahweh has not been able to fulfill the desired purpose of getting all of his creation to worship him. Now I don't know about being able to counter any possible opposition in the self, since I don't think that's testable.

[Rabb Allah]

There have been lots of gods that people worshiped, and perfection doesn't seem to be a necessary part of them. Yahweh has not been able to fulfill the desired purpose of getting all of his creation to worship him. Now I don't know about being able to counter any possible opposition in the self, since I don't think that's testable.

Well this all goes back to ignosticism and the fact that as human beings we have endured theological evolution. We kept up scaling the qualities of god till we have what we have no. From materialistic animism to monotheistic divine supremacy. At one point theocide was common now we have unending deities who surpass the natural universe

[John V]

People back then probably thought that this was the absolute best thing to do. My god is better than your god, so you'd better do what my god says. In fact, it's the worst thing they could have done. Claiming he's perfect, all knowing, all present, and such actually demands that he be held to a higher standard than anything else. It means we can't cut him any slack for things we disagree with in the bible.

No, it means that we can't cut ourselves any slack for things we disagree with.