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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 12:08 am
(April 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Understand. But, why is it essential for Christians to perpetuate this myth that evolution is a falsehood? In other words, why do they feel that refuting it is necessary to supporting their faith? Many denominations support evolution, it is more the 'fundie' side that doesn't because they uphold Genesis as literal truth. Many denominations treat Genesis as metaphorical in nature.
Head scratcher. There's that whole cognitive dissonance thing again. I cannot fathom how even the most liberal interpretation of the Bible could mesh with evolution. We all started as single celled organisms. Even if you take the Genesis account figuratively, it's hard to mesh that.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 12:47 am
(April 11, 2014 at 11:40 pm)tor Wrote: (April 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Understand. But, why is it essential for Christians to perpetuate this myth that evolution is a falsehood? In other words, why do they feel that refuting it is necessary to supporting their faith? Many denominations support evolution, it is more the 'fundie' side that doesn't because they uphold Genesis as literal truth. Many denominations treat Genesis as metaphorical in nature.
Head scratcher. Because it fucks up genesis. Adam and Eve are bullshit etc. Men are not different from animals. Were not made in gods image etc.
Yeah, it's only a problem for those that insist on reading Genesis literally. Why they insist on doing so is a mystery to me. So much of Genesis reads as ancient mythology and just-so storytelling.
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 1:00 am
(April 11, 2014 at 11:40 pm)tor Wrote: (April 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Understand. But, why is it essential for Christians to perpetuate this myth that evolution is a falsehood? In other words, why do they feel that refuting it is necessary to supporting their faith? Many denominations support evolution, it is more the 'fundie' side that doesn't because they uphold Genesis as literal truth. Many denominations treat Genesis as metaphorical in nature.
Head scratcher. Because it fucks up genesis. Adam and Eve are bullshit etc. Men are not different from animals. Were not made in gods image etc.
Because evolution implies a higher degrees is available than little minded Christians would feel comfortable in allowing their fellow men.
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 7:04 am
(April 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Understand. But, why is it essential for Christians to perpetuate this myth that evolution is a falsehood? Because it's what they are taught and they are certain that it makes no sense, and that the only way that anyone else believes it is because they are ignorant or mislead. Anytime I see the arguments against evolution I can easily see my former self making them and finding zero objections among my religious colleagues of any faith. That it seems to be such a universal attitude among people of varying faiths and denominations makes it that much more of a certainty for them.
It may be one of the most effective bubbles I've ever experienced from the inside and seen from the outside. Lacking (or simply not accepting) the understanding of evolution works and how time scales factor in makes the idea of macro-evolution easy to dismiss and extremely difficult to even consider.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 7:31 am
(April 12, 2014 at 7:04 am)Tonus Wrote: Anytime I see the arguments against evolution I can easily see my former self making them and finding zero objections among my religious colleagues of any faith.
I find your perspective fascinating. Do you have a thread already in which you've shared your deconversion process? Also I would be interested to know which faithbrand you formerly held and, if you don't mind, where you are from. I'm thinking you might actually have left the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Having lost the god-perspective at a fairly young age I sometimes wonder how much harder it must be to do so at a later age. My own family of origins was simply not very adept at inculcating their beliefs. My mother was not obsessed by religion and my sea-faring father, who was, wasn't very often present.
I understand gangs force new members to kill someone in order to ensure their loyalty. The Mormons, by forcing their young to proselytize in a sense do the same thing. By engaging them in coercing others they build loyalty to the group. The JW's, I believe, do much the same.
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 7:53 am
(April 11, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Understand. But, why is it essential for Christians to perpetuate this myth that evolution is a falsehood? In other words, why do they feel that refuting it is necessary to supporting their faith? Many denominations support evolution, it is more the 'fundie' side that doesn't because they uphold Genesis as literal truth. Many denominations treat Genesis as metaphorical in nature.
Head scratcher.
You've answered your own question. Because they are fundamentalists, they HAVE to oppose it. They are completely obliged to, in spite of any and all evidence. They will certainly latch onto any 'evidence' that throws into question the theory of evolution, but evidence is not their guiding light, and that which comes into conflict with their ancient books must be thrown out because it threatens their position.
The point about fundamentalist religion is that they already have their result. Their job is just to make the pieces fit in as best they can. This is above all why creationism is such poor science, because they know already the result they are aiming for.
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 8:06 am
(April 12, 2014 at 7:53 am)ElDinero Wrote: You've answered your own question. Because they are fundamentalists, they HAVE to oppose it. They are completely obliged to, in spite of any and all evidence. They will certainly latch onto any 'evidence' that throws into question the theory of evolution, but evidence is not their guiding light, and that which comes into conflict with their ancient books must be thrown out because it threatens their position.
The point about fundamentalist religion is that they already have their result. Their job is just to make the pieces fit in as best they can. This is above all why creationism is such poor science, because they know already the result they are aiming for.
That's true of some of them, but there are others that have just never been exposed to what evolution really is: they're just victims of the fundie push to silence and distort the theory out of existence.
There isn't a single objection to evolution that actually addresses what evolution is, and there are many christians out there who have only heard the theory expressed in terms of those objections. It's hardly their fault, they're just prey for the echo chamber, mostly. Those are the ones that'll come to accept it if they're ever presented with the facts.
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 10:01 am
True that. All I ever knew about evolution was that we originated from apes, and how absurd that is. What I was told by Christian authorities. We were discouraged from researching the topic ourselves, by being told that doing so would be dangerous to our faith. It is, but only because it reveals the truth.
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 10:12 am
(April 12, 2014 at 7:31 am)whateverist Wrote: I find your perspective fascinating. Do you have a thread already in which you've shared your deconversion process? Also I would be interested to know which faithbrand you formerly held and, if you don't mind, where you are from. I'm thinking you might actually have left the Jehovah's Witnesses? I don't think I've made a thread on that, at least not with much in the way of details. I should, since it's a good exercise IMO. But yes, I left the JWs (not formally, as they still consider me a member, if not in good standing). I've lived my whole life in the Bronx, but am about a year away from a permanent move to Ohio.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ
April 12, 2014 at 10:33 am
(April 12, 2014 at 12:47 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (April 11, 2014 at 11:40 pm)tor Wrote: Because it fucks up genesis. Adam and Eve are bullshit etc. Men are not different from animals. Were not made in gods image etc.
Yeah, it's only a problem for those that insist on reading Genesis literally. Why they insist on doing so is a mystery to me. So much of Genesis reads as ancient mythology and just-so storytelling.
Fundies have to believe that Adam and Eve really were the first humans, that they really committed the "original sin" that got them kicked out of the Garden of Eden, that all subsequent humans inherited this propensity to sin, and that only Jesus can clear us of this sin trait (if only we believe, confess our sins, and repent) and thereby enable us to avoid Hell and go to Heaven.
Without the illness (original sin), there's no need for a cure (Jesus!!!!) and the whole religion falls apart.
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