Why is it the employer's responsibility to provide a living wage?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

How do I define the economic worth of a single cancer research PhD student...
However, I think its much more complex than you appear to imply.

As a business analyst, I can tell you that calculating future/lifetime value on human resource investment is both difficult and complex however it's a necessary component of the Cost/Benefit analysis for any decent strategic investment plan.

Oh indeed. I'm not questioning the worth/value added of doing such a thing.

Rather, I'm questioning Heywood's implicit assumption that (paraphrase) people are pretty good at determining 'value'. I think this assessment is both too simplistic and inaccurate when, as you say, the mere mention of human resource investment brings up issues that the average layman would be unable to comprehend, at least by themselves.

Indeed, the very use of the word 'value' in this respect is vague and needs clarification.

[Heywood]

Do you seriously think that outside the very skilled labor market that potential employees have any where near the negotiating power of employers? The employer-employee relationship is by it's very nature an inequitable one.

A living wage restricts an employees negotiating power in a certain respect. CBO said raising the minimum wage would lift some out of poverty at the expense of eliminating some jobs. The consequence is you might be working Walmart and making a living wage in a job that makes you miserable....with no alternative except unemployment and the poverty such a state brings.

[Jackalope]

Do you seriously think that outside the very skilled labor market that potential employees have any where near the negotiating power of employers? The employer-employee relationship is by it's very nature an inequitable one.

A living wage restricts an employees negotiating power in a certain respect. CBO said raising the minimum wage would lift some out of poverty at the expense of eliminating some jobs. The consequence is you might be working Walmart and making a living wage in a job that makes you miserable....with no alternative except unemployment and the poverty such a state brings.

Way to not answer the question, Heywood. It's a simple fucking question.

[Heywood]

A living wage restricts an employees negotiating power in a certain respect. CBO said raising the minimum wage would lift some out of poverty at the expense of eliminating some jobs. The consequence is you might be working Walmart and making a living wage in a job that makes you miserable....with no alternative except unemployment and the poverty such a state brings.

Way to not answer the question, Heywood. It's a simple fucking question.

The question is moot. A persons negotiating power/position is what it is. Employees have some negotiating power but a living wage requirement erodes the employees negotiating power as it eliminates options for the employee.

Implementing a living wage requirement only strengthens the employers negotiating power/position.

[Autumnlicious]

How is that so? Please. Elucidate.

[Jackalope]

How is that so? Please. Elucidate.

Yes, please do - because it sounds like utter bullshit.

[Isun]

It is bullshit.

The problem here, is the advantage for negotiating is entirely on the employer's side. Not only because they have control of who works for them, but because republicans make sure that labor is at a disadvantage at the negotiating table.

[Heywood]

How is that so? Please. Elucidate.

It erodes an employees bargaining position in a couple of respects.

1. The employee cannot offer to work for less. Why would an employee want to do that? Well to get or keep a job. Suppose you are an ex-con, why should an employer hire you over a non-ex con? Cause you will work for less? Not anymore...the law took that option away from you. In my younger days, I hired low paying people....college students. Worked them 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts. They went to school the other 4 days. A law gets enacted saying I gotta pay overtime past 8 hours. I cut their hours to 8 hour shifts but scheduled them 5 days instead of 3. Some said they would work the 12 and not claim the overtime because that suited their school schedule....I said sorry....the law took that option away from you.

2. It prices some jobs out of the market thereby locking employees into jobs. You work at Walmart. You are miserable. You can't quit because doing so leads to no income. Jobs are scarcer because living wage laws have priced many jobs out of the market. Management knows this.....Yeah....I'm afraid you're going to have to work on Sundays from now on....don't like it....find another job.....good luck with that.

You want to equalize negotiating power...make it so people can quit anytime they want by either having an income to fall back on, or be able to find a another job the very next day(or both). You want me to work Sundays? Good luck with that.....you'll need to compensate me more otherwise find someone else to work in this shithole.