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(June 15, 2014 at 2:30 am)snowtracks Wrote: poor guy is suffering so from such big, big numbers "but there are a lot of planets in the universe, snowtracks", "if we take into account the countless planets". first of all dufus, there are an estimated 10^82 atoms in the observable universe so you know the planets are less right?
There are fewer planets than atoms in the universe? Wow, any more breaking news, oh revelator?
(June 15, 2014 at 2:30 am)snowtracks Wrote: and did you know that the The Fermi Paradox has you flat on the ground and gasping for air?
Gee, since no one was claiming there are any galactic empires out there, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Maybe the average number of technological civilizations per galaxy is one in ten. Maybe no one can go faster than the speed of light.
Fermi's paradox is only a paradox is you assume there should be other civilizations able to reach us. Why would someone assume that?
Life could be as common as rocky, watery planets the right size-ish, and technological civilizations could still be incredibly rare. Since we are ignorant of the actual state of affairs regarding the frequency of life on other planets, and how often that life leads to sapience, we can draw no conclusions from our ignorance except that there don't seem to be any alien civilizations close enough for us to detect at this time with our current instrumentation.
(June 15, 2014 at 2:30 am)snowtracks Wrote: and do you believe in the galactic police force charged with painting over the graffitti left by other civilizations cited by the site?
You must find our position very convincing if you have to put this kind of crap in our mouths to pretend that we arent'.
not assuming. but their pattern electromagnetic signals would be transmitted and detected.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
There are fewer planets than atoms in the universe? Wow, any more breaking news, oh revelator?
Gee, since no one was claiming there are any galactic empires out there, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Maybe the average number of technological civilizations per galaxy is one in ten. Maybe no one can go faster than the speed of light.
Fermi's paradox is only a paradox is you assume there should be other civilizations able to reach us. Why would someone assume that?
Life could be as common as rocky, watery planets the right size-ish, and technological civilizations could still be incredibly rare. Since we are ignorant of the actual state of affairs regarding the frequency of life on other planets, and how often that life leads to sapience, we can draw no conclusions from our ignorance except that there don't seem to be any alien civilizations close enough for us to detect at this time with our current instrumentation.
You must find our position very convincing if you have to put this kind of crap in our mouths to pretend that we arent'.
Quote:not assuming. but their pattern electromagnetic signals would be transmitted and detected.
You do understand just how many light years most possibly life supporting planets are away from us? And why assume all life evolves to include intelligent life? We are rather a rarity on earth.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
(June 16, 2014 at 2:44 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: There are fewer planets than atoms in the universe? Wow, any more breaking news, oh revelator?
Gee, since no one was claiming there are any galactic empires out there, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Maybe the average number of technological civilizations per galaxy is one in ten. Maybe no one can go faster than the speed of light.
Fermi's paradox is only a paradox is you assume there should be other civilizations able to reach us. Why would someone assume that?
Life could be as common as rocky, watery planets the right size-ish, and technological civilizations could still be incredibly rare. Since we are ignorant of the actual state of affairs regarding the frequency of life on other planets, and how often that life leads to sapience, we can draw no conclusions from our ignorance except that there don't seem to be any alien civilizations close enough for us to detect at this time with our current instrumentation.
You must find our position very convincing if you have to put this kind of crap in our mouths to pretend that we arent'.
not assuming. but their pattern electromagnetic signals would be transmitted and detected.
How do you know they will use electromagnetic signals??
(June 24, 2014 at 10:25 pm)snowtracks Wrote: not assuming. but their pattern electromagnetic signals would be transmitted and detected.
If they use electromagnetic signals.
What if they are more advanced than us, their electromagnetic wave has already passed us by and they now communicate using something else? What if they never discovered radio? What if they never progressed past the equivalent of our Roman Empire? What if they discovered some other means of communication, besides electromagnetic, that has eluded us? What if they are simply so fucking far away that their signals are too attenuated to pick out of the background noise? None of these conditions are outside the realm of possibility but in your arrogance you assume that because we cannot detect them, they are not, never have been and never will be there. The probability of extra-terrestrial life is near, not quite but near, 1:1, simply because of the immensity of the universe.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
June 24, 2014 at 11:57 pm (This post was last modified: June 25, 2014 at 1:00 am by Anomalocaris.)
The problem with Fermi paradox is it ignores the seemingly probable scenario that when compared to the average duration of the existence of any advanced alien lineage, the amount of time they spend in a social, behavioral, and technological state that is even vaguely comprehensible to humans of the present might be extremely brief. So the total number of civilizations both detectable and recognizable to us might only be a tiny fraction of the number that actually exists. Hence there could be many advanced civilizations but none detectable and recognizable to us.
People tend to get so wrapped up in the "Garden of Eden" story that they overlook the fact that the Bible says where it was and even when it existed. I can understand casual Bible readers missing it but even preachers and priests overlook it. So if the God character actually made a man from common field dirt and then a woman from the man's rib it was on a planet in a galaxy far, far, far away. It didn't happen on this one.
There are books that tell us all about the life of James Bond - and Harry Potter - And Sherlock Holmes TOO.
The bible is NOT a historical refererence - it is a book of religious MYTH and we KNOW that some things in the bible are simply NOT TRUE - example -
there was NO worldwide flood as described in the bible.
And sorry - but the majority of xtian sects - representing over 75% of the xtians in the world - have already accepted evolution. Unlike the small sects made up of stupid people, the larger sects cannot risk another round of being wrong - like that of the earth being the rigid center of the Universe - which it is also not.
Yes - you are right - what is said in the bible - "DIDN'T HAPPEN"
you're right that the bible doesn't described a worldwide flood.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
(June 25, 2014 at 10:54 pm)snowtracks Wrote: you're right that the bible doesn't described a worldwide flood.
Really? Genesis appears to describe a world wide flood to me.
Quote:And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep bust forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened, and rain fell on the earth for forty days and forty nights. . . .The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth and all the high mountains under the entire heavens weer covered. The water rose and covered the mountains to a depth of twenty feet. Everything living that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died . Everything on the face of the earth was wiped out, men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the face of the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Genesis 7:11-23
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
(June 25, 2014 at 10:54 pm)snowtracks Wrote: you're right that the bible doesn't described a worldwide flood.
Really? Genesis appears to describe a world wide flood to me.
Quote:And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep bust forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened, and rain fell on the earth for forty days and forty nights. . . .The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth and all the high mountains under the entire heavens weer covered. The water rose and covered the mountains to a depth of twenty feet. Everything living that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died . Everything on the face of the earth was wiped out, men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the face of the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Genesis 7:11-23
here's are some thoughts: 1) the biblical Hebrew vocabulary has only about 3,000 words. consequently, the interpretation dependents on grammar, sentence structure, and context since there are multiple literal definitions of common usages. the frame of reference of ancient people is how words and phases such as 'the entire heavens', 'face of the earth' are correctly interpreted. using our modern day global perspective wouldn't give the correct meaning.
2) then there are some nuttie Christian insisting on the word 'world' meaning entire surface of the earth, and 'day' always meaning 24 hours to confuse the issue.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
(June 25, 2014 at 11:37 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Really? Genesis appears to describe a world wide flood to me.
Genesis 7:11-23
here's are some thoughts: 1) the biblical Hebrew vocabulary has only about 3,000 words. consequently, the interpretation dependents on grammar, sentence structure, and context since there are multiple literal definitions of common usages. the frame of reference of ancient people is how words and phases such as 'the entire heavens', 'face of the earth' are correctly interpreted. using our modern day global perspective wouldn't give the correct meaning.
2) then there are some nuttie Christian insisting on the word 'world' meaning entire surface of the earth, and 'day' always meaning 24 hours to confuse the issue.
Nutty meaning the world means the whole world? Or the face of the earth means all the earth? Nutty meaning a day means 24 hours? Sorry, I think that is exactly what the Hebrews meant. They thought there was a world wide flood. They didn't think it was local or a metaphor.
Obviously, the myth of the flood may have come out of a more local flood or floods. It probably did. And yes it's nutty to believe Genesis happened as written. But many, many Christian nuts do. And the writers of Genesis did. The story is nutty.
So, assuming you don't consider yourself nutty, why did god lead the Hebrews and Christians through the Middle Ages and some today to believe it was a literal flood covering the whole earth?
Well?
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
There are fewer planets than atoms in the universe? Wow, any more breaking news, oh revelator?
Gee, since no one was claiming there are any galactic empires out there, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Maybe the average number of technological civilizations per galaxy is one in ten. Maybe no one can go faster than the speed of light.
Fermi's paradox is only a paradox is you assume there should be other civilizations able to reach us. Why would someone assume that?
Life could be as common as rocky, watery planets the right size-ish, and technological civilizations could still be incredibly rare. Since we are ignorant of the actual state of affairs regarding the frequency of life on other planets, and how often that life leads to sapience, we can draw no conclusions from our ignorance except that there don't seem to be any alien civilizations close enough for us to detect at this time with our current instrumentation.
You must find our position very convincing if you have to put this kind of crap in our mouths to pretend that we arent'.
Quote:not assuming. but their pattern electromagnetic signals would be transmitted and detected.
You do understand just how many light years most possibly life supporting planets are away from us? And why assume all life evolves to include intelligent life? We are rather a rarity on earth.
As someone just pointed out in another thread, even if there are advanced star-faring species out there, when we train a telescope on distant galaxies, we see them as they were billions of years in the past.
The nearest observable star viewed through a telescope is 4.3 light years away.
The closest habitable earth-like planet is 493 light years away. That means we see it as it was 493 years in the past. Radio waves travel the same speed as light in a vacuum.
We didn't invent the radio until 1820, 194 years ago. That means our very first radio transmissions won't even reach the closest earth like planet for another 299 years, and we didn't start publicly broadcasting radio until 1910, so it will take 389 years for the first frequent radio broadcasts to reach the closest habitable earth like planet.
Even if there is a well traveled federation of star-faring races, they probably wouldn't even know we're here, and won't for a long time to come. If they're even looking for radio signals.
