God's injustice towards Adam and Eve

[Cato]

I;m not sure that it's deeper either, that's why I said different or deeper.
[/quote]

Hope your ass is enjoying that fence.

[John V]

Hope your ass is enjoying that fence.

I don't see that it's improper to acknowledge that you weren't exactly sure how to phrase something and so gave a couple possibilities.

[Statler Waldorf]

God tells A&E not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They did so anyway.

Yup.

God hands down some really harsh punishment, because to disobey God is to commit evil.

Harsh according to whom?

The pair immediately exhibit this knowledge upon eating the fruit.

No, prior to eating the fruit they were able to use God’s perfect knowledge of good and evil to know what they ought to do, after eating the fruit they can only use their own fallible knowledge of good and evil.

It is extremely obvious that they could not have understood it was wrong to disobey God until after doing it.

Why not? God explicitly told them what they should not do.

Of course, it wasn't just them. All humanity has to suffer because of this 'sin'.

Yes, Adam was the representative of all creation.

And, just for one harmless transgression that caused absolutely no damage or loss to God. It is a maximal punishment for a minimal crime, and people continue to suffer the punishment for a 'sin' only two people committed.

A crime against a being of infinite authority requires an infinite punishment. Fortunately, God has given redemption to his adopted children.

Why did God do this?

So that He may be glorified through the redemption of His fallen people.

Why did God create a serpent who could talk?

So that He may be glorified through Satan’s destruction.

Satan isn't named as the serpent at any point in the Bible.

That’s incorrect.

“And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” –Revelation 12:9 (ESV)

“15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood.”- Revelation 12:15 (ESV)

“And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.” –Revelation 20:2 ESV

“3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.”-2 Corinthians 11:3 (ESV)

Genesis 3 predicts the coming Messiah and his triumph over the serpent, of course Jesus’ triumph is over Satan (Per Luke, and Revelation) so it logically follows that the two are the same being.

Ezekiel 28 also says that Satan was in Eden.

How can this be defended as 'justice'? It's cruel and wicked and not resembling justice in the slightest. It does, however, make a 'savior' necessary, doesn't it?

How is it injustice? Merely asserting that does not make it so.

The very first story of the Bible is nothing but a diabolical con by an evil monster, and it proves the fallacy of 'biblical free will': God gave it to you and will damn you for ever using it.

The Bible does not teach that mankind was given free will at the fall, quite the opposite actually. Man’s will is in bondage to sin due to the fall.

[Mystical]

It is extremely obvious that they could not have understood it was wrong to disobey God until after doing it.

Why not? God explicitly told them what they should not do.

My mum told my friend (we were four at the time) not to touch the curling iron or she would be burnt. She stared at my mom while her hand dashed for the iron and fist held that sucker till her hand was W.o.W burned. Everyone was shocked.

When I see a baby on the bed crawling around and I say don't go too far -- I always have my hand around their ankles just in case because they don't know that they could go headfirst over the edge and break their neck.

Where in the Genesis does it show you that Adam and Eve knew consequence of action/disobeying authority?

[Statler Waldorf]

Where in the Genesis does it show you that Adam and Eve knew consequence of action/disobeying authority?

I do not see how it matters but…

“And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’”” – Genesis 3:2-3 (ESV) [Emphasis added by SW]

[Mystical]

I tell my nephew all the time to look both ways when crossing the street 'lest he die' and yet he has no ability to comprehend the level of seriousness of which I speak. He skipps carelessly into the road, every time.
Maybe if he saw another child or squirrel or dog get hit by a car he'd understand the consequence. Was there death in Genesis?

[Ravenshire]

Sorry, I don't accept videos as arguments.

You ignore any argument that you can't refute. Just like almost every other christer to wander in here.

[Statler Waldorf]

I tell my nephew all the time to look both ways when crossing the street 'lest he die' and yet he has no ability to comprehend the level of seriousness of which I speak. He skipps carelessly into the road, every time.
Maybe if he saw another child or squirrel or dog get hit by a car he'd understand the consequence. Was there death in Genesis?

I am not really following you Miss Luckie; your nephew is a post-fall child not a pre-fall adult. Yes there’s tons of death in Genesis, Cain and Able, the flood and so on. The point is that Adam and Eve should have obeyed God regardless of the consequences, He owned them and gave them a direct command. This is so typical of fallen humanity though, to concentrate on the fall rather than the grace given to us by Christ’s work. It reminds me of when the Israelites started whining about having to eat manna all of the time.

[Mystical]

I'm sorry you're not following me, Stat.

So there was no death before Cain and Able's fiasco is that what you're saying? Or perhaps when god clothed them he had to kill an animal. Before that, before 'the fall', death is negligible yes?
So Adam and Eve had no idea the consequences of their actions. They were given free will (before the apple) with consequence of death, and yet had no idea what that consequence was?

[Statler Waldorf]

I'm sorry you're not following me, Stat.

So there was no death before Cain and Able's fiasco is that what you're saying? Or perhaps when god clothed them he had to kill an animal. Before that, before 'the fall', death is negligible yes?

There was no death prior to the fall, that’s correct (Old-Earth Christians would not agree with this but you’re talking to me ).

So Adam and Eve had no idea the consequences of their actions.

I do not think that follows, they could still know what death was without ever seeing it take place. I am still not seeing the significance here though; if God had only said, “or else something very bad will happen” wouldn’t they still be sinning by disobeying him? I do not see how knowing or not knowing the consequences is relevant when the sin is the act of disobedience itself. Eve should have simply said, “No I will not eat of that tree because God told me not to.”