Is Rape Natural? Part 2, 2014 Edition

[Dystopia]

Actually... most rapists are average people, and its most common form by far is domestic.

Psychopaths can make for particularly painful rapes, though.

No. Rapists aren't average people. They're cunning psychopaths who pretend to act normal so they can keep up a ruse of functioning in society. They have no feelings of sympathy or conscience for their victims other than to act out their violent sexual urges. There's no shades of gray here. They're pure evil.

Actually not all rapists are psychopaths, you'd be amazed by how many functioning people in society are psychopaths and never reveal it to others... Rapists can be psychos but my bet is they are average people who have a thirst for power and dominance, as well as a strong libido. Having an uncontrollable desire for committing a crime doesn't equal being a psycho

[Napoléon]

They're pure evil.

No such thing as 'pure evil'.

Although I can understand that religiously motivated people would think otherwise.

[Dystopia]

No evil or good people, just people who do good things and people who do bad things. Even 'evil' people did good things, take the example of Mussolini in Italy, when I was in Rome I spoke to some Italians and they considered the man was an important figure in Italian history despite fascism.

[Brian37]

Unfortunately rape IS natural. Now people flip out taking that out of context. "Natural" in science only means we observe it. Rape does not come from boogie men, men with pitchforks, or Lex Luther. Anymore than a tornado comes from the wicked witch of the east. Cancer and earthquakes are also natural, that does not mean we want those things affecting us.

A human rapes as a psychological way to fill a gap in their own insecurities. Asserting dominance over others is an evolutionary way of creating social pecking orders and gaining resources. Rape is the dark side of that evolution.

Nothing in life or the universe is a result of a magic villain or a magic super hero.

[A Theist]

They're pure evil.

No such thing as 'pure evil'.

Although I can understand that religiously motivated people would think otherwise.

It has nothing to do with religious motivation. A lot of non-religious people would agree with the pure evil assessment. Purely evil people are those who refuse to excercise any self control over their urges and rather act out their violent fantasies on hapless victims. Humans have the capacity to exercise restraint, to choose to do evil, choose to excerise self-control, and choose to do good. Sociopaths, as was Ted Bundy, totally sell themselves over to their own evil devises, devoid of any sympathy, sorrow, or regret. No boogie man involved, except for themselves....

"Ted" Bundy (born Theodore Robert Cowell; November 24, 1946 – January 24, 1989) was an American serial killer, rapist, kidnapper, and necrophile who assaulted and murdered numerous young women and girls during the 1970s and possibly earlier. After more than a decade of denials, he confessed shortly before his execution to 30 homicides committed in seven states between 1974 and 1978; the true total remains unknown, and could be much higher.

Bundy was regarded as handsome and charismatic by his young female victims, traits he exploited to win their trust. He typically approached them in public places, feigning injury or disability, or impersonating an authority figure, before overpowering and assaulting them at more secluded locations. He sometimes revisited his secondary crime scenes for hours at a time, grooming and performing sexual acts with the decomposing corpses until putrefaction and destruction by wild animals made further interaction impossible. He decapitated at least 12 of his victims, and kept some of the severed heads in his apartment for a period of time as mementos. On a few occasions he simply broke into dwellings at night and bludgeoned his victims as they slept.

Initially incarcerated in Utah in 1975 for aggravated kidnapping and attempted criminal assault, Bundy became a suspect in a progressively longer list of unsolved homicides in multiple states. Facing murder charges in Colorado, he engineered two dramatic escapes and committed further assaults, including three murders, before his ultimate recapture in Florida in 1978. He received three death sentences in two separate trials for the Florida homicides.

Ted Bundy died in the electric chair at Raiford Prison in Starke, Florida, on January 24, 1989. Biographer Ann Rule described him as "a sadistic sociopath who took pleasure from another human's pain and the control he had over his victims, to the point of death, and even after." He once called himself "... the most cold-hearted son of a bitch you'll ever meet." Attorney Polly Nelson, a member of his last defense team, agreed. "Ted," she wrote, "was the very definition of heartless evil."

wikipedia

[bennyboy]

Of course rape is natural. Men have a strong motivation to have sex with women, obviously rooted in the selective advantage of pre-contraceptive, pre-abortion humans. I'm not sure, but I think you could even make the case that rape is more natural than not raping. Not raping involves cultural training, understanding (and caring about) the feelings of others, etc., which are at least partly learned. Raping basically involves a fundamental instinct, aided by the biological advantage of size that most men have over most women.

I'd also say the intense horror and revulsion toward rape is artificial-- the psychological harm often extends well beyond the physical harm. It is strong ideas about the sanctity of the sexual self, the importance of virginity and purity, etc. that makes rape such a scarring event for some. But I've personally had doctors do that are just as invasive, and been less affected-- because my world view accepts medical procedures and not unwelcome sexual assualts.

Now, before everyone goes off and starts shitting on me, we're talking about nature here, with the understanding that nature is a hostile, shitty, dog-eat-dog context, not a field full of daisies with frolicking unicorns. I'm not saying that it's okay for men to rape women, or that it's wrong for a women to be psychologically broken afterward-- just that it's clearly natural.

[LostLocke]

Sexual desire does not equal desire to rape.

[Whateverist]

Now, before everyone goes off and starts shitting on me, we're talking about nature here, with the understanding that nature is a hostile, shitty, dog-eat-dog context, not a field full of daisies with frolicking unicorns. I'm not saying that it's okay for men to rape women, or that it's wrong for a women to be psychologically broken afterward-- just that it's clearly natural.

Natural in the sense that murder, slavery and beatings are natural I suppose. The imposition of the will of the strong over the will of the weak falls well within the realm of the natural. At its heart, that is what is most repulsive about being raped. Your own will is overwhelmed by that of another who then proceeds to use your body as an object of that others gratification. Just like a hyena beginning to feed on its victim while it still stands, sexual victimization is certainly natural.

Up to that point I agree with you, but aren't you really saying that the victim is way over reacting? Because if you are, then you are saying more than that it is natural. You're saying that makes it -if not okay- then at least not so bad. It seems you want to raise empathy for the rapist and diminish it for the victim. Here I disagree.

[Violet]

No. Rapists aren't average people.

Methinks you should take up people watching. It's fascinating.

They're cunning psychopaths who pretend to act normal so they can keep up a ruse of functioning in society.

I don't see what's so 'cunning' about the majority of rapists. Most of them are probably quite the opposite of phenomenally clever. The few who I'd call "cunning" go to extremes that are quite beyond the scope of most rapists.

They have no feelings of sympathy or conscience for their victims other than to act out their violent sexual urges. There's no shades of gray here. They're pure evil.

Rape is a regrettable thing to have done to another. Rapists can be afraid of themselves, terrified of this frenzy they could not control... and many feel empathy for the pain of the other victim. They can reject this portion of themselves, and work to fight it.

The real shame of rape... is that nobody wins. They're no more evil than those who drive drunk. This is not a world of black and of white.

Really... most are average people who messed up badly.

[Napoléon]

It has nothing to do with religious motivation. A lot of non-religious people would agree with the pure evil assessment.

I didn't necessarily say it had anything to do with being religious, I just said I can understand why religious people would believe in terms such as 'pure evil'. Considering the fact you guys believe in an absolute morality, I don't believe in an absolute morality...

Purely evil people are those who refuse to excercise any self control over their urges and rather act out their violent fantasies on hapless victims. Humans have the capacity to exercise restraint, to choose to do evil, choose to excerise self-control, and choose to do good. Sociopaths, as was Ted Bundy, totally sell themselves over to their own evil devises, devoid of any sympathy, sorrow, or regret. No boogie man involved, except for themselves....

Does that make them 'pure evil' though? The term is kinda meaningless as far as I'm concerned. No one is pure evil. That's a label we as humans apply to things. Morality is a human concept. The universe doesn't think in terms of good and evil, shit just happens. Most the shit that happens in the universe is destructive. If a comet smashed into us and obliterated everything on Earth, does that mean the comet is pure evil? I mean, it's not showing any remorse...

I look at it as though the comet is just doing shit the universe has deigned it to do. It's not in control of its actions.

Now there is ofcourse a difference between something that can think and a something that can't, but, the universe in general doesn't care about that difference; we do.

The universe itself has no concept of morality, it's only us that ascribes these notions of good and bad to things. A label of 'pure evil' implies that such a person would only know evil, like it is their goal, their purpose, their very meaning of living. I don't think anyone is truly like that, I think people act like assholes because chemical and biological processes play out in such a way that they think like assholes and in turn act like them. Even the most evil people still have the capacity to do something that we might deem as 'good' IMHO.