Christians. Could you be wrong?

[Chas]

Hey, hey, hey... it has 144 members worldwide .

wait a minute.. the senate only has 100 members, we can't take them seriously either.

We don't.

[Huggy Bear]

His conclusion was that there had to be a light there to strike the negative..doesn't get more clear than that.

And the only source of light you can possibly think of is magic?

Seeing how the photograph is in the archives of the Religious Department of the Smithsonian Institute, even they can see the significance.

[Chas]

Since you have never observed "dark matter" you accept that it exists purely upon the credentials of the claimants, do you not?

So why should this be any different?

No, it's because of its observed gravitational effects.

---

And the only source of light you can possibly think of is magic?

Seeing how the photograph is in the archives of the Religious Department of the Smithsonian Institute, even they can see the significance.

Yes, its anthropological significance - not its truth value.

The religious collection is a subset of the anthropology department.

[Esquilax]

And the only source of light you can possibly think of is magic?

Seeing how the photograph is in the archives of the Religious Department of the Smithsonian Institute, even they can see the significance.

Or they put it with the rest of the junk people think is magic for no reason.

I do wonder, though, why you decided that the best support for your argument from ignorance was an argument from authority?

[Mister Agenda]

I don't believe that, I mean Christianity has helped me realise my problems had sins so that I rarely ever do them. I believe I am growing in Christ, following his examples in areas of life. I could never imagine life without Christ.

I'm sympathetic, but lack of imagination is nothing of which to be proud.

Though I suspect it would be more accurate to say you are afraid to imagine life without Christ. The reason for your fear is that on some level you suspect that if you think the alternatives through, you might find one of them preferable to your current path, which you've committed to for reasons other than intellectual integrity.

In my humble opinion.

[Huggy Bear]

If you read the article, then you would know that I'm not saying anything the Scientific American isn't, so what your saying is that the Scientific American is making unsubstantiated claims, correct?

No, they aren't claiming 'supernatural', only you are.

no, I have stated that healing can occur based upon faith or "belief", since people can't seem to grasp that they mean the same thing.

This is exactly what the article states.

---

the placebo effect has been known about for past 110 or so years, I think it's safe to say it's unexplainable by science.

That does not follow. You don't understand what science is.

The placebo effect has been used as long as there have been humans. The history of the placebo effect is the history of pre-scientific medicine.

[/quote]

My point was the "placebo effect" has been around long enough to be observed and studied by science and still there is no explanation, so if your saying it's been around even longer, it only strengthens my point.

[Mister Agenda]

The simple answer is he was never a follower in the first place, he may not be lying. All I am saying is he must not of truely followed christ.

That's a clever way you've come up with to discount any testimony that doesn't reinforce your current beliefs. You don't have to consider what ShaMan has to say at all, you can reject it out of hand by telling yourself he wasn't a REAL believer. It's roughly equivalent to putting your fingers in your ears and singing so as to avoid discussing what he has to say on its merits.

[Cyberman]

Huggy, you don't get to make assumptions of that nature either. I didn't respond to your question about dark matter because it had no relevance to the question at hand. That you're trying to sell it as though it does speaks volumes about your honesty. Thankfully, everything here is a matter of record so we can all evaluate it.

[Mister Agenda]

My religion does not teach that I am useless, it actually teaches that I am valued that is why God offers everyone salvation. What it actually teaches is that without God i 'm going to suffer in Hell.

There seems to be a disconnect between 'I am valued' and 'I deserve to suffer in hell if I don't worship God'. I worshiping God the only value you have, and without it you're not only worthless, but deserve eternal torture?

[Huggy Bear]

Since you have never observed "dark matter" you accept that it exists purely upon the credentials of the claimants, do you not?

So why should this be any different?

No, it's because of its observed gravitational effects.

so you've observed dark matter?