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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 7, 2014 at 6:26 pm
(October 7, 2014 at 10:53 am)Lek Wrote: Read the bible and see how we are supposed to act toward our fellow men and women as christians. Read the words of Jesus. That's the standard by which we are to live.
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If a person doesn't live by these standards, then that person is not following Christ, whether they call themselves christians or not.
Whoa! Not so fast. If you believe in god and claim that you were "saved" that means you prayed to jesus and he "came into your heart." If you say that a large portion of self-professed christians are just as evil than they were before jesus came into their heart, then you are saying that having a personal relationship with the almighty god is not even statistically noticeable.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 7, 2014 at 6:32 pm
(October 7, 2014 at 10:53 am)Lek Wrote: Read the bible and see how we are supposed to act toward our fellow men and women as christians. Read the words of Jesus. That's the standard by which we are to live.
..
If a person doesn't live by these standards, then that person is not following Christ, whether they call themselves christians or not.
Wait, so it's works and not faith?
Oddly, the majority of Christians I've encountered claim the exact opposite.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 7, 2014 at 6:39 pm
That is yet another part of the bible that is unclear. Jesus says that faith without works is bad, but he or Yahweh says good deeds are like filthy rags to him. I would think most people in the world value works because good works help society and have a concrete effect on the world. However if the religion doesn't stress faith, then it's harder to convert people to christianity. So they want you to do good deeds, but they really want you to be in their group and subject to their commandments. Faith without works is bad PR. Works without faith doesn't get money into the churches.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 8, 2014 at 10:40 pm
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2014 at 10:41 pm by Lek.)
Quote:Whoa! Not so fast. If you believe in god and claim that you were "saved" that means you prayed to jesus and he "came into your heart." If you say that a large portion of self-professed christians are just as evil than they were before jesus came into their heart, then you are saying that having a personal relationship with the almighty god is not even statistically noticeable.
You said it--"self-professed" christians. Having a personal relationship with God should be readily noticeable. [/quote]
(October 7, 2014 at 6:32 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Wait, so it's works and not faith?
Oddly, the majority of Christians I've encountered claim the exact opposite.
No. If a person possesses faith he will do the works.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 8, 2014 at 10:43 pm
(October 8, 2014 at 10:40 pm)Lek Wrote: (October 7, 2014 at 6:32 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Wait, so it's works and not faith?
Oddly, the majority of Christians I've encountered claim the exact opposite.
No. If a person possesses faith he will do the works.
That doesn't exactly address my observation.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2014 at 10:58 pm by Lek.)
(October 7, 2014 at 6:39 pm)Chad32 Wrote: That is yet another part of the bible that is unclear. Jesus says that faith without works is bad, but he or Yahweh says good deeds are like filthy rags to him. I would think most people in the world value works because good works help society and have a concrete effect on the world. However if the religion doesn't stress faith, then it's harder to convert people to christianity. So they want you to do good deeds, but they really want you to be in their group and subject to their commandments. Faith without works is bad PR. Works without faith doesn't get money into the churches.
Yeah. Good works can be a huge help to the world, but we still need faith for salvation.
Ok folks. If you've read this thread, you've been told that christians are hateful, murderous, baby killers, who would own slaves if we could. We're out to control the world and stamp out anyone who doesn't agree with us. Before you make any final decisions about what you think, I suggest you get to know some christians.
(October 8, 2014 at 10:43 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (October 8, 2014 at 10:40 pm)Lek Wrote: No. If a person possesses faith he will do the works.
That doesn't exactly address my observation.
James 2:14-26English Standard Version (ESV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 8, 2014 at 11:51 pm
(October 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm)Lek Wrote: Ok folks. If you've read this thread, you've been told that christians are hateful, murderous, baby killers, who would own slaves if we could. We're out to control the world and stamp out anyone who doesn't agree with us. Before you make any final decisions about what you think, I suggest you get to know some christians.
I can hardly help but know lots of Christians. I'm surrounded by them. And I'm really glad that most of them don't seem to think slavery or stoning rape victims is a good idea. But that doesn't sanitize the Bible of all the horrible stuff in it. It's still right there in that there Christian holy book.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 12:02 am
(October 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm)Lek Wrote: Ok folks. If you've read this thread, you've been told that christians are hateful, murderous, baby killers, who would own slaves if we could. We're out to control the world and stamp out anyone who doesn't agree with us. Before you make any final decisions about what you think, I suggest you get to know some christians.
You're a christian, and you just spent the last few pages defending the murder of babies as a morally good act. 
And, see, I specifically chose to talk about you and not the sample size of other christians who say outrageous things on this board, because I figure you're the one person that you won't cavalierly and arrogantly employ the No True Scotsman fallacy on.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 12:37 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2014 at 12:42 am by Jackalope.)
(October 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm)Lek Wrote: (October 7, 2014 at 6:39 pm)Chad32 Wrote: That is yet another part of the bible that is unclear. Jesus says that faith without works is bad, but he or Yahweh says good deeds are like filthy rags to him. I would think most people in the world value works because good works help society and have a concrete effect on the world. However if the religion doesn't stress faith, then it's harder to convert people to christianity. So they want you to do good deeds, but they really want you to be in their group and subject to their commandments. Faith without works is bad PR. Works without faith doesn't get money into the churches.
Yeah. Good works can be a huge help to the world, but we still need faith for salvation.
Ok folks. If you've read this thread, you've been told that christians are hateful, murderous, baby killers, who would own slaves if we could. We're out to control the world and stamp out anyone who doesn't agree with us. Before you make any final decisions about what you think, I suggest you get to know some christians.
I certainly wouldn't use such rhetoric, rather, I'd point out that according your own scriptures, your god was perfectly hunky dory with many behaviors we decry.
Perhaps that nuance escaped you.
(October 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm)Lek Wrote: (October 8, 2014 at 10:43 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That doesn't exactly address my observation.
James 2:14-26English Standard Version (ESV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
As soon as that book is useful as an authoritative source on, well, anything, I'll need something with a little more meat.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 12:58 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2014 at 1:04 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(October 8, 2014 at 10:45 pm)Lek Wrote: Ok folks. If you've read this thread, you've been told that christians are hateful, murderous, baby killers, who would own slaves if we could. We're out to control the world and stamp out anyone who doesn't agree with us. Before you make any final decisions about what you think, I suggest you get to know some christians.
Of course! My sister isn't born-again. My mom is not a believer. My son's mom wasn't a Catholic when we fell in love. I've lived in America most of my life, and you're fuckin'-A doodah, I've never in my years met a Christian. Not a one! -- every person I've met in America has been Jainist, Zoroastrian, Rasta, or just balls-out god-killers, and more power to them. I've never met a Christian, and would have no idea if I did meet one, because I have no clue what to look for.
You should perhaps think before you deign to condescend in such a thoughtless manner --- it only makes you look that much worse for the effort.
eta: It's pretty fucking hard not to be rude right here.
eta 2; it'a not Christians who are hateful murderous baby-killers -- that would be the god they blindly worship.
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