My honest review of Christianity

[Aoi Magi]

Numbers 31:18. Earliest case of pedophilia in the Bible

18 But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.

This is not talking about pedophilia. They were keeping alive the young virgins so they could eventually be brides. This isn't allowing them to rape these girls.

Where does it forbid them from doing anything to these young girls till they are eventually ready to be "brides"?

[Lek]

Do you think that Pharaoh in the Exodus account was really a nice guy and would have let the Israelites go if God would not have hardened his heart? God was allowing the evil in Pharaoh to harden him to the demands of Moses. We won't agree on the taking of the life of David's child either, since you don't believe that the baby went to an eternity of happiness, but that's the biblical outlook concerning that child and all the innocent children killed in the bible. Maybe it would be better if they had lived longer and died some other horrible, more painful death. Maybe by then they would have reached the age of reason and died rejecting God. If you don't believe that there is an afterlife, then you'll interpret the bible differently than if you do. If I believed we weren't guilty of turning against God and that there was no life after this one, then I might agree with you, but that's not the perspective of the scriptures.

Exodus is a little different . The Bible says god hardened pharaoh's heart. It does not say and god said I will harden pharaoh's heart because you Jews have been misbehaving. You do see the difference. One is a metaphor, the other a promise of punishment.

We could discuss the Jewish view of heaven all day, but fact remains that according to the Bible, god punished a man by killing a child.

I do see that one was a promise of punishment, but that doesn't have any effect on whether one is a metaphor or not. They're both examples of God using the actions of evil men for his purposes.

[dyresand]

Exodus is a little different . The Bible says god hardened pharaoh's heart. It does not say and god said I will harden pharaoh's heart because you Jews have been misbehaving. You do see the difference. One is a metaphor, the other a promise of punishment.

We could discuss the Jewish view of heaven all day, but fact remains that according to the Bible, god punished a man by killing a child.

I do see that one was a promise of punishment, but that doesn't have any effect on whether one is a metaphor or not. They're both examples of God using the actions of evil men for his purposes.

if the paraoh did a good act and let the gods chosen people be free they would have no need for god. ergo god harden the pharaohs heart.

[Lek]

Where does it forbid them from doing anything to these young girls till they are eventually ready to be "brides"?

It doesn't say anything specifically because the Israelites already knew they weren't allowed to rape these girls.

[Aoi Magi]

Where does it forbid them from doing anything to these young girls till they are eventually ready to be "brides"?

It doesn't say anything specifically because the Israelites already knew they weren't allowed to rape these girls.

Did they develop that bit of morality on their own or did god supply them with it somewhere?

[pocaracas]

Let me get this straight, guys...
You're comparing our current concept of pedophilia (>18yo) with the practices of ancient times, when it was commonplace for 14 year olds to be mothers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#History

Teenage pregnancy was normal in previous centuries, and common in developed countries in the 20th century. Among Norwegian women born in the early 1950s, nearly a quarter became teenage mothers by the early 1970s. However, the rates have steadily declined since that 20th century peak.
[...]
Hildegard of Vinzgouw, the wife of Charlemagne, was about 14 years old when she gave birth to her first son in 772 CE. The mother of Henry VII of England was 13 years old when she gave birth to him in 1457. Maria of Tver, the wife of Ivan the Great of Russia, gave birth to her first son when she was about 16 years old, in 1458. Empress Teimei of Japan was 16 years old when she gave birth to Hirohito in 1901.

[Aoi Magi]

Let me get this straight, guys...
You're comparing our current concept of pedophilia (>18yo) with the practices of ancient times, when it was commonplace for 14 year olds to be mothers?

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#History

Teenage pregnancy was normal in previous centuries, and common in developed countries in the 20th century. Among Norwegian women born in the early 1950s, nearly a quarter became teenage mothers by the early 1970s. However, the rates have steadily declined since that 20th century peak.
[...]
Hildegard of Vinzgouw, the wife of Charlemagne, was about 14 years old when she gave birth to her first son in 772 CE. The mother of Henry VII of England was 13 years old when she gave birth to him in 1457. Maria of Tver, the wife of Ivan the Great of Russia, gave birth to her first son when she was about 16 years old, in 1458. Empress Teimei of Japan was 16 years old when she gave birth to Hirohito in 1901.

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Being a common practice doesn't make it right, and if morality does come from an all-knowing god, he should've known about it and said something about it before the human lawmakers had to interfere.

[dyresand]

It doesn't say anything specifically because the Israelites already knew they weren't allowed to rape these girls.

Did they develop that bit of morality on their own or did god supply them with it somewhere?

We grew our own morality now that it is wrong. back then it was common place to do such vile acts even god supposedly in the bible didn't care.
true 13 y/o wives and mothers... are kind of still common place in the middle east. the only countries who are still super religious to not grow their own morality.

[Lek]

It doesn't say anything specifically because the Israelites already knew they weren't allowed to rape these girls.

Did they develop that bit of morality on their own or did god supply them with it somewhere?

Deuteronomy 22:25-27New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27 For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.

The above verses address forced sex with a betrothed woman, so I can't say specifically that it applies to a woman who is not betrothed. He never said it was ok to rape an non-betrothed woman. But again, God did not give the ok, in any way, to the Israelites to rape these girls.

---

Being a common practice doesn't make it right, and if morality does come from an all-knowing god, he should've known about it and said something about it before the human lawmakers had to interfere.

Do you think it was pedophilia for a man to marry a 16 year old girl in ancient times?

[dyresand]

Did they develop that bit of morality on their own or did god supply them with it somewhere?

Deuteronomy 22:25-27New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27 For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.

The above verses address forced sex with a betrothed woman, so I can't say specifically that it applies to a woman who is not betrothed. He never said it was ok to rape an non-betrothed woman. But again, God did not give the ok, in any way, to the Israelites to rape these girls.

---

Being a common practice doesn't make it right, and if morality does come from an all-knowing god, he should've known about it and said something about it before the human lawmakers had to interfere.

Do you think it was pedophilia for a man to marry a 16 year old girl in ancient times?

it is immoral humanly immoral not god immoral human immoral to do so.
and 13 y/o back then were wives and even 16 y/o. but ill give the 16 y/o to you because back the average human life back then was low. in reality people didn't live to 800 year olds but they must have a difference conception of years and time to think that.
but bow our own human standards the bible is immoral because it doesn't say these things are wrong, rape, pedophilia, murder (in the name of god), killing of non believers and or atheists, crusades.
here is a list we all can say is immoral.

bullet "God is a being of terrific character...cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust." Thomas Jefferson

bullet "Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?" Job 4:17

bullet "Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a schoolbook? Its morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble." Fisher Ames, Massachusetts Congressman (1758-1808)

bullet "...Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints." Revelation 15:3b

bullet
"...texts from the source we call Holy Scripture have been used in the past to defend the divine right of kings and to oppose the Magna Carta; to condemn Galileo and to assert that the Sun does indeed rotate around the Earth; to justify slavery, segregation and apartheid; to keep women from being educated, entering the professions, voting or being ordained; to justify war, to persecute and kill Jews; to condemn other world religions; and to continue the oppression and rejection of gay and lesbian people." Bishop John Shelby Spong 1 (He left out transgender individuals)

bullet "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

bullet "The Bible has been used for centuries by Christians as a weapon of control. To read it literally is to believe in a three-tiered universe, to condone slavery, to treat women as inferior creatures, to believe that sickness is caused by God's punishment and that mental disease and epilepsy are caused by demonic possession. When someone tells me that they believe the Bible is the 'literal and inerrant word of God,' I always ask, 'Have you ever read it'?" Bishop John Shelby Spong. 2

bullet The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction. Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic-cleanser; a misogynistic homophobic racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal ..." 3 Richard Dawkins

bullet The problem with the Old and New Testaments is that they are both dated pieces of literature that reflect the values and mores of those who wrote them between 1000 BCE and 135 CE. Many passages in the Old Testament reflect a tribal mentality that portrays God as hating everyone the people of Israel hated. It also portrays God as killing the firstborn male in every household in Egypt on the night of the Passover; justifies the institution of slavery (except for fellow Jews) and defines women as the property of men. Note that even the Ten Commandments exhort us "not covet our neighbor's house, his wife, his slaves, his ox, his ass, etc." The neighbor is clearly a male, and the things that we are forbidden to covet are all male possessions. These Hebrew Scriptures, however, also define God as love, justice and as a universal being. In the portrait of the "Servant" in Isaiah 40-55 the Hebrew Scriptures portray human life as capable of giving itself away and even of acting in such a way as to draw the pain out of others, absorb it and return it as love. The New Testament portrays Paul as believing that slavery is good if it is kind. Paul also reveals attitudes toward women that are today deeply embarrassing: "I forbid a woman to have authority over a man." "Women should keep quiet in church." Bishop John Shelby Spong. 4

taken from source - http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl.htm

but not in any of that it says pedophilia is wrong or is it right.
so man thought it was alright in the bible and have been doing for centuries and even the greeks did it.
the case rests biblical pedophilia god wasn't with it or against neither he said it was right or wrong because he didn't care.
it was the will of man and his objection and own personal morals were to say this is wrong lets not do harm to the innocent ever
again.