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[split] Agnostic atheism is the only intellectually honest position
July 27, 2010 at 3:11 pm
(July 26, 2010 at 6:56 pm)theVOID Wrote: And talk about how agnostic atheism is the only intellectually honest position.
That opinion depends on the atheist though. I consider myself a strong gnostic atheist for a number of quite honest reasons, debatable sure, but I would not really want to watch a show that declares agnostic atheism as the only intellectually honest way to be as its message.
I'm really shitty at giving kudos and rep. That's because I would be inconsistent in remembering to do them, and also I don't really want it to show if any favouritism is happening. Even worse would be inconsistencies causing false favouritisms to show. So, fuck it. Just assume that I've given you some good rep and a number of kudos, and everyone should be happy...
(July 26, 2010 at 6:56 pm)theVOID Wrote: And talk about how agnostic atheism is the only intellectually honest position.
That opinion depends on the atheist though. I consider myself a strong gnostic atheist for a number of quite honest reasons, debatable sure, but I would not really want to watch a show that declares agnostic atheism as the only intellectually honest way to be as its message.
Tough luck, but it's true.
The combination of the totality of current human knowledge and logical application cannot possibly conclude that gods "do not exist".
July 27, 2010 at 8:56 pm (This post was last modified: July 27, 2010 at 9:15 pm by Scented Nectar.)
(July 27, 2010 at 4:59 pm)theVOID Wrote: The combination of the totality of current human knowledge and logical application cannot possibly conclude that gods "do not exist".
It can if you go by the actual definitions rather than made up new imaginary creatures, eg. the embodiment of some emotion, like they say sometimes with love, justice, etc. To claim that an emotion is a conscious entity is nuts but it's not a god they believe in. It's when they add to it god traits, like a supernature, supremacy, etc. that it totally becomes a logical impossibility.
Here's some of the definitions I'll probably be using when I do a youtube on it:
atheist:
Merriam Webster: one who believes that there is no deity
Oxford: a person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods
Wiki: Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
deity:
Merriam Webster: 1 a : the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity b capitalized : god 1, supreme being
2 : a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>
3 : one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful
Oxford: a god or goddess (in a polytheistic religion)
the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity)
Wiki: A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers, often religiously referred to as a god.
god:
Merriam Webster: 1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler
Oxford: (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity
Wiki: God is the English name given to the singular omnipotent being in theistic and deistic religions (and other belief systems) who is either the sole deity in monotheism, or a single deity in polytheism.
supernatural:
Merriam Webster: 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
Oxford: (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature
Wiki: The term supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" + natura "nature") pertains to being above or beyond what one holds to be natural. In the case of one who has strong scientific and atheist beliefs, the supernatural is anything unexplainable by natural law or phenomena.
supreme:
Merriam Webster: highest in rank or authority
Oxford: highest in rank or authority
Wiki: [nothing]
worship:
Merriam Webster: 2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
Oxford: noun
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity:
religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity:
great admiration or devotion shown towards a person or principle:
archaic honour given to someone in recognition of their merit
verb
[with object] show reverence and adoration for (a deity):
[no object] take part in a religious ceremony:
Wiki: Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed to one or more deities. The word is derived from the Old English worthscipe, meaning worthiness or worth-ship, to give, at its simplest, worth to something.
Religious worship happens in a wide variety of locations: in purpose-built places of worship, at home or in the open. Many religious traditions place an emphasis upon regular worship at frequent intervals, often daily or weekly. Expressions of worship vary but typically include one or more of the following:
Prayer, meditation, ritual, scripture, sacraments, sacrifice, sermons, chanting, music or devotional song, dance, religious holidays, festivals, pilgrimage, dining, fasting, temples or shrines, idols, or simply private individual acts of devotion.
reverence:
Merriam Webster: 1 : honor or respect felt or shown : deference; especially : profound adoring awed respect
Oxford: deep respect for someone or something
Wiki: to show extreme honor and respect for something or someone
divine:
Merriam Webster: 1 a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love> b : being a deity <the divine Savior> c : directed to a deity <divine worship>
Oxford: of or like God or a god, providence or God
Wiki: Divinity and divine (sometimes "the Divinity" or "the Divine") are broadly applied but loosely defined terms, used variously within different faiths and belief systems — and even by different individuals within a given faith — to refer to some transcendent or transcendental power, or its attributes or manifestations in the world. The root of the words is literally "godlike" (from the Latin deus, cf. Dyaus, closely related to Greek zeus, div in Persian and deva in Sanskrit), but the use varies significantly depending on which god is being discussed. This article outlines the major distinctions in the conventional use of the terms.
I'm really shitty at giving kudos and rep. That's because I would be inconsistent in remembering to do them, and also I don't really want it to show if any favouritism is happening. Even worse would be inconsistencies causing false favouritisms to show. So, fuck it. Just assume that I've given you some good rep and a number of kudos, and everyone should be happy...
(July 28, 2010 at 5:29 am)Shinylight Wrote: You can't conclude that God or other deities don't exist by looking at and analysing definitions from the dictionary.
I can conclude that god(s) *AS DEFINED IN THE DICTIONARIES* do not exist. The logical impossibilities arising from all the definitions I've found there take my atheistic belief from the highly improbable point-zero-zero-etc-one chance of a god, all the way to a full assertion that god positively does not exist (asserted by me - I'm not saying anyone else must believe it full strength like I do). I'm also not saying that I might never change my mind on this, just that this is what my current atheism belief strength is.
I'm really shitty at giving kudos and rep. That's because I would be inconsistent in remembering to do them, and also I don't really want it to show if any favouritism is happening. Even worse would be inconsistencies causing false favouritisms to show. So, fuck it. Just assume that I've given you some good rep and a number of kudos, and everyone should be happy...
RE: [split] Agnostic atheism is the only intellectually honest position
July 28, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Ditto EVF...
Scented - I don't really seeing the point in debunking the validity of dictionary defined gods, anyone who believes in the God will say "Webster does not define my beliefs" which is a perfectly valid objection to your work. All you are really going to achieve by this is spending a lot of time impressing nobody but yourself.
Also, to say that the basis of your atheism is the fact that dictionary defined gods are logically contradictory seems a rather weak standpoint.