Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?

[Jenny A]

Question: if you were born in 700 BC would you think rape is wrong? Could a moral philosopher convince you otherwise?

Question: if you were born in 700 BC would you think that the square of the hypotenuses side of a triangle is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides? Could a patient person convince you?

[Surgenator]

Hi and thanks for writing!
Im truly glad you bring up how this may "feel". I think its honest to ask yourself why you "feel" this? Of course it is uncomfortable trying to come up with a way to justify rape and pedophilia. There isn't a justification, which is exactly why I am compiling this. It is also a tool to help the atheist to look past a grudging bias and have an honest look at "universal and absolute morality"... If it exists, it came from something other than matter and electrical impulse.

Its hard to do because not only id there no justification, but we have a real and living "conscience" that rises up to protect these innocents, and is repulsed by these ideas... and this too goes beyond chemical reaction and matter.

WE MUST accept the fact that either universal laws are absolute and always true, or we have to justify rape and child abuse as being sometimes actually good... and we just cant do that.

You completely missed the point I was arguing. I can come up with a scenerio that the moral thing to do is rape or pedophilia by creating a moral dilemma. How I "feel" has no affect on the my argument.

In a moral dilemma scenerio were both options are considered amoral, the less amoral would become the moral thing to do. This is a counter to the argument that universal morals exist.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, Tsu..you tell atheists what their position is (always a laugh) - then demand that others do your work for you? All the while ignoring any input from the folks you intend to run roughshod over? That about sum this up?

[Tsun Tsu]

As I've told you many times, whether or not I agree or disagree with you is irrelevant (whether I;m a member of your group or "the other group" the dynamic would still exist between both groups). If I was going to stop letting the air out of your balloon at some point I would have done so by now.

According to your imaginary stats? The ones that you pretend to generate with your abysmal fucking poll? Give it a rest....

Are you saying there is an atheist here that agrees with me when I say rape is absolutely and universally wrong regardless of time space or opinion? Where?
Are you saying any theist doesn't believe there are universal truths that transcend humanity? Where?

The only thing you've left to do is to provide such an instance when rape is good and not universally wrong... What instance would you use to justify rape?

[Whateverist]

Well that did the trick. Now I'm bored and tired and ready to sleep. Hope you find the confirmation for your bias that you're looking for so ardently. Reality and I will get on just fine without you.

[Tsun Tsu]

So..you tell atheists what their position is (always a laugh) - then demand that others do your work for you?

You don't need to do any more work if you don't want to discuss it further no problem... feel free to move on

We know you don't believe in universal morality, or universal/absolute truth, you've been clear on that.

If youd like to post again, instead of not saying anything on topic you might explain when you think rape is good? ...or simply admit it is universally absolutely a moral wrong regardless of opinion, and that this truth transcends the human race.

[Aoi Magi]

Because it violates the most helpless and weakest of us, but I find rape itself an immoral personal violation regardless of innocent and helpless natures. How about you... why do you find it immoral?

If violation of only the helpless and weakest constitute rape, then is rape of someone strong and powerful ok?

As I said before, morality is a human construct for the better progress of our society. In pedophilia, an adult harms a person(child) both mentally and physically when they are not developed enough for sex. This act harms the child on many different levels, and is in turn detrimental to the progress of our society and us as a species. If the physical and mental capacity of a 6yr old human child enabled it to have sex without any harmful effects, then it wouldn't be considered immoral. Thus it is dependent on our human biology, not a universal law.

And do you agree with me there is never a time that it is good? And if you agree with me, then you do realize you are now believing in a moral absolute. How does one explain the existence of moral absolutes (aka also universal truths)?

Again, don't jump to conclusions like that. Rape is considered a crime because it is harmful to us and the society as per the current conditions, thus it is not good. If in a weird hypothetical situation, getting raped was the only way to, let's say, cure cancer or cure a mental disorder, then it wouldn't be considered immoral. Oh and just so you don't forget, not immoral or not bad, doesn't automatically make something good, it's not black and white, but a gradient.

Just because something only applies to us humans doesn't make it universal when it doesn't apply to other animals, unless you consider the humans to be the sole species comprising this entire universe.

[Tsun Tsu]

Well that did the trick. Now I'm bored and tired and ready to sleep. Hope you find the confirmation for your bias that you're looking for so ardently. Reality and I will get on just fine without you.

And I hope you find that justification for rape

[The Grand Nudger]

We know you don't believe in universal morality, or universal/absolute truth, you've been clear on that.

Excellent, good, good. Now, you understand that even though I do not believe, that this is not really a comment upon reality? Correct? That this is a statement that is descriptive of me? I don't subscribe to that position because I posses no moral absolutes no "higher truths", nor have I ever seen any offered, in the history of mankind (that is available to me) - and I don't think that you're going to be the person to crack that door open tonight...here at AF. Understandable, right? Are you, personally, in possession of any such truths or absolutes?

If youd like to post again, instead of not saying anything on topic you might explain when you think rape is good? ...or simply admit it is universally absolutely a moral wrong regardless of opinion, and that this truth transcends the human race.

LOL, Why Mr. McCarthy where have you been all this time. I don't have to (and will not) do either of those things Mein Forum Fuhrer, as neither would apply, nor would either give us any insight as to whether or not there are moral absolutes, or absolute truths of any kind. Try staying on your own topic before insisting that others do so, eh?

[Surgenator]

Well that did the trick. Now I'm bored and tired and ready to sleep. Hope you find the confirmation for your bias that you're looking for so ardently. Reality and I will get on just fine without you.

And I hope you find that justification for rape

Here's a question for you Tsu. Suppose you have forced to choose between two options,

1) Rape an old women
2) Rape a 12 year old girl

Which is the moral thing to do?