How powerful is god?

[robvalue]

As expected, non answer. You can't have omniscience and free will, not even gods. You have to "choose" one, to make your claim consistent.

But who cares about consistency?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

by that I mean, I have no belief in any god, but so many people do believe.... so why does god, all powerful, let me not believe?

Which god are you thinking about?

[h4ym4n]

Thanks for the welcome GC.

I understand, you're screwed either way you answer.

I truly hope it got thinking.

Who's screwed, I've found the way to eternal life, you on the other hand may have found a path far less pleasurable.

GC

---

So you didn't think about it, huh? :VERYSAD:

In other words you don't care if what you believe is true or not.

You are screwed ;

If you answered yes god/jesus did know before I was conceived, that I am going to heaven or hell then this statement would be true. god/jesus did create me to be a puppet and any choices I make won't make a difference in the end.

Do you desire to be a puppet, do you desire to make your own choices, do you want to be forced to live a life you don't want?

And this would be utter gullibility and you don't care.

These things are why God has given you the freedom of choice,

If you answered no, jesus/god *did not* know what my final destination is before my conception then your god isn't omniscience. Omniscience is what makes a god a god and it would appear we've found the limits of your god's majik.


Can you be honest and admit that you don't care that what you believe is true or not?


If your just going to give up then I'm calling checkmate.


Hey Dritch and Lek, got any thoughts on this?







.

[robvalue]

Yup you got it. You can't have both, it's impossible. You have to admit one of those things isn't true, or else you don't care if any of it is true.

There's that guy, forgot his name, who said that even if he could go back in time and could verify beyond a shadow of a doubt that nothing in the bible actually happened, no god, no jesus, nothing, he would still believe in christianity.

I think we're approaching that level with a lot of people. The fantasy land in my head which I spend a lot of time is far preferable to this world, but I am aware it is not real.

Oh yeah, and we're still just talking about constructing a coherent claim here, never mind going about demonstrating it's actually true after that.

[Spooky]

Why does it seem that god can't overcome the simple logic of a bunch of really advanced monkeys?

[robvalue]

Hahah. Because that logic created him in the first place. Boom

Not the best use of said logic, but nevertheless.

[404NotFound]

Bump in case you missed this GC

I'm not biting , we been through this same tired old argument time and again and I'm not about to start it all over with an noobie. By the way welcome to the forum.

GC

GC, with love from another , I find your lack of answering h4ym4n's question a copout. That you didn't bite and claimed 'this same tired old argument' excuse indicates this wasn't the first time you had your ass handed to you arguing your worn out concepts. Checkmate h4ym4n...

[robvalue]

It's a lot quicker to say yes or no than it is to explain why you don't have to tell us which answer you hold true.

Come on religious guys, you need to choose. Step up to the plate. Here are your options:

1) God is omniscient, therefor we have no free will. He knows everything we will ever do, so we cannot choose to do otherwise.

2) We have free will, therefor God is not omniscient. If we have a free choice, that means it's impossible anyone or anything can predict what we will do. If they can, we are instead entirely predictable and there was never any choice.

Can't have it both ways. The nearest you can come is this "God knows everything that is logically true" bullshit. So you can have that for free if you choose answer 2. But time to take some ownership, which is it?

There is option 3 of course, which is that you don't care if your beliefs are true or even make sense. It's a valid choice and I'll accept it as an answer.

Scream false dichotomy if you want, but you better have a good logical argument if you want me to take you seriously.

[h4ym4n]

It's a lot quicker to say yes or no than it is to explain why you don't have to tell us which answer you hold true.

Come on religious guys, you need to choose. Step up to the plate. Here are your options:

1) God is omniscient, therefor we have no free will. He knows everything we will ever do, so we cannot choose to do otherwise.

2) We have free will, therefor God is not omniscient. If we have a free choice, that means it's impossible anyone or anything can predict what we will do. If they can, we are instead entirely predictable and there was never any choice.

Can't have it both ways. The nearest you can come is this "God knows everything that is logically true" bullshit. So you can have that for free if you choose answer 2. But time to take some ownership, which is it?

There is option 3 of course, which is that you don't care if your beliefs are true or even make sense. It's a valid choice and I'll accept it as an answer.

Scream false dichotomy if you want, but you better have a good logical argument if you want me to take you seriously.

Bravo!

[robvalue]

Thank you

I don't expect any honest answers, but we'll see. Every so often I get surprised. This is what I keep talking about, making a coherent falsifiable claim about God. This is just dealing with the coherent bit. After that there is still falsifiable, before you even get to trying to present evidence.