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Two babies discussion.
#91
RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 9, 2015 at 1:53 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: How does the second baby know all that stuff?

Baby bible.

(February 9, 2015 at 2:02 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: It had a NLE?

Near life experience.

Oh, shit, that one's better.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#92
RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: MysticKnight's little presentation did a good job of demonstrating the close-mindedness of the the atheist mentality.

By making up a scenario where the nonatheist happens to be right for no apparent reason? You and I have different ideas of 'good' when it comes to demonstrating things.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: They exist every day in their little scientific boxes, hoping that scientists will discover for them the cause and reason for life.

If scientists never do, it's not the slightest skin off my nose. I'm not an atheist because of science, I'm an atheist because I can tell a good argument from a bad one.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: If that cause and reason doesn't fit in their little world view, they reject it and wait for their scientists to hopefully, someday discover that for them.

You talk as though you have evidence of 'a cause and reason' when you're merely asserting it.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: All this even though they know that matter cannot be created from nothing, and if something was never created and always existed, it has qualities attributed to God.

Sure. Quantum foam fits pretty much everything on the list of God qualities except personhood. If you want to worship it, be my guest.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: How can someone examine the origin of the universe or contemplate what exists beyond the edge of the universe and not reason out the existence of something beyond the natural world?

How can someone do so and not reason out that the natural world is bigger than they imagined?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I guess time will tell how well I "know" what I believe, but I'm betting it all on it. Tell me how I'm worse off than you are.

Your belief seems to keep you from using your mind to the extent that you should be able to do.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#93
RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 9, 2015 at 2:01 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Which is really the funniest thing about Lek's comments.

"Tut tut, you wait for evidence and reason before coming to conclusions, and those conclusions can change in the face of new evidence. Poor, deluded fools. I base my world view on morally reprehensible Iron Age myths that present an internally inconsistent, incoherent depiction of a god that's both one thing and three things when the story demands it! Take that!"

I mean, really?

"And if you wait for evidence before forming your beliefs, and won't accept mine as true because I said so, you're close minded!"
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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#94
RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 8, 2015 at 6:54 pm)Lek Wrote: Nobody "knows" anything. We think we know because we can experience it with our senses and others can experience it as well. It may be something totally other than what we have determined it to be, but we don't know that because our physical senses are limited.

How do you get from that to 'you're close-minded if you don't take someone's word for how things really are'?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: We do have the ability to reason about things and develop beliefs based on that reasoning. I have reasoned because of statments in my last post that something exists beyond the natural world - therefore the supernatural. I don't "know " this, but I believe it,
and I live my life as if it is true.

It's your business whether you believe it. If you claim it's by reason and don't show your work, we're entitled to dismiss your claim out of hand, and we should.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: Also, because of what I stated in the last post, I believe that the universe was created from something supernatural.

You definitely should not believe that if it's based on your last post.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I have read the bible, which was written over a period of centuries by numerous authors, who carried on the story of a coming messiah who would save us from the evil world in which we exist.

None of whom we have reason to trust that they were able to know what they claimed to know.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I know about no other religion that exists or has existed that the same amount of continuing revelation.

Same amount of claimed revelation.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: Lastly, I myself have always been interested as much in the "whys" as in the "hows".

Ah, a fan of putting the cart before the horse.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I firmly believe that there is reason for our existence and the existence of the cosmos.

I like carrot cake.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: Science doesn't answer that question and leaves me deeply unsatisfied.

So you buy into a made-up answer that you find satisfying. How admirable of you. No wonder you're so proud of it.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm not content to believe that we are just born for no reason and die and that's it.

And if you're not content with it, it must not be true, eh?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I do care about the reason why we exist in this sometimes happy and sometimes happy world. One thing I "know" is that no one is always happy and content.

Why should they be so?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: We can't verify what I know until we die.

That's one of the things that should tip you off that what you're saying you 'know' isn't actually knowledge.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I sense God being with me, but I also can't prove that till later also. Based on my prior statements I believe that's reasonable, and that's what I'm going with.

Maybe you shouldn't believe things based on your own statements.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: Just like you guys say - "we don't know now, but I'm confident that someday it will be proven."

Our confidence level is irrelevant, and whether 'it' is never proven doesn't change much. Might shut a few people on your side who act like they know the opposite is true up.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I do have one consolation that you don't have, though, and that is that you'll never be able to say "I told you so" if you're right, but I will.

To each their own. It seems consistent with someone who doesn't actually care what the truth really is to find that a consolation.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: Otherwise we're all don't exist anymore, so who cares?

Um, you ARE aware that other people continue to exist after you die, right?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: There could be some great scientific discovery that could change my outlook, but I'm definitely not changing now.

Believe me, in your present state, we wouldn't want you agreeing with us. I often regret that I have no control over who gets to be an atheist.

(February 9, 2015 at 1:35 pm)Lek Wrote: My only argument you attacked directly so far is my "told you so" argument, as if I didn't say anything else. I just gave you that one so that you'd have something to respond to and wouldn't feel so bad.

Sure you did.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#95
RE: Two babies discussion.
I'm sick of these babies, can we eat them already?
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#96
RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 9, 2015 at 3:44 pm)robvalue Wrote: I'm sick of these babies, can we eat them already?

I'm thinking a nice, light quinoa salad on the side would go well with lightly pan fried baby.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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#97
RE: Two babies discussion.
Are they gluten-free though? Allergies.
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#98
RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: MysticKnight's little presentation did a good job of demonstrating the close-mindedness of the the atheist mentality.

No. What it did was draw an inapt analogy.

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: They exist every day in their little scientific boxes, hoping that scientists will discover for them the cause and reason for life. If that cause and reason doesn't fit in their little world view, they reject it and wait for their scientists to hopefully, someday discover that for them.

No. What we do when we don't know something, is that we say, "I don't know". Yeah, I know it's a strange concept to you little believers, who insist on having answers even when you don't know what you're talking about (cf. your reply to me denigrating science even as you admitted that you didn't know much about science).

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: All this even though they know that matter cannot be created from nothing, and if something was never created and always existed, it has qualities attributed to God.

As we know, matter can phase-shift from and to energy. As for "qualities attributed to god", well, they're also qualities attributed to Ahura Mazda. Why is your little god more meaningful than him?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm)Lek Wrote: How can someone examine the origin of the universe or contemplate what exists beyond the edge of the universe and not reason out the existence of something beyond the natural world?

Argument from Incredulity.

How can you believe in an invisible being which can think things into material existence even as you argue he doesn't exist on a material plane? What is it about the outside Universe which requires a deity? And how can an immaterial being interact with material reality? Answers, please.

And what makes you, of all people, qualified to expound upon the nature of that deity?

That's right: you are unqualified to talk about god. If you wish to disagree, please, lay out your C.V. Let us see why you, of all people, are close enough to your god that you can speak for him.

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#99
RE: Two babies discussion.
Fetuses are free of original sin while in the womb, too. The onset of that coincides with the first breath and the resulting ensoulment.

Then you can dash them against the stones.
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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RE: Two babies discussion.
(February 10, 2015 at 2:14 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Fetuses are free of original sin while in the womb, too. The onset of that coincides with the first breath and the resulting ensoulment.

Then you can dash them against the stones.

Aha! So THAT'S why Christians care about a fetus right up until the point it's born.
How will we know, when the morning comes, we are still human? - 2D

Don't worry, my friend.  If this be the end, then so shall it be.
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