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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 12:57 pm
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (February 13, 2015 at 11:10 am)FlyingSpaghettiMonster Wrote: W
As one of those people why do you judge me? I preferably would be alive then dead, I'll try to get as long as I can get. I don't absolutely need eternal life but it would be nice to see the universe and all it has to offer, 100 years is too short, if you'd enjoy then by all means, but don't judge others for wanting more then just a meager sum.
If anything your entire argument sounds absolutely bitter, it may be hope but we aren't crazy.
The problem occurs when people's hope for something clouds their judgement and gets them to believe what they want to believe, rather than believe what the evidence suggests. This is called "wishful thinking," and is exactly the same "reasoning" that many Christians engage in when they believe in god and heaven because the idea appeals to them. Consequently, both are equally worthy of ridicule. In the case of copying one's brain and sticking it in a computer, it should be perfectly obvious that a copy of a thing is not the original thing. And when people fail to believe what is perfectly obvious due to their hopes and fears, then they are taking a ridiculous position based on wishful thinking. When one takes a ridiculous position, one invites ridicule.
In this example, there is zero chance that the computer will make your life any longer. It may be theoretically possible to copy you, but a copy of you isn't you.
Calling my argument "bitter" is just an argumentum ad hominem. It does not help your position. Indeed, it suggests that your emotions are clouding your judgement. Otherwise, why resort to such a disreputable form of argument?
Being an atheist means one has avoided one silly superstitious belief. It does not mean that one has not fallen into countless other superstitions, nor does it mean that one does not have severely faulty thinking. And it obviously does not prevent one from having a vain hope of immortality.
That is quite fully theistic in its presumption and preachiness.
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 12:57 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm by Bad Wolf.)
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Calling my argument "bitter" is just an argumentum ad hominem. It does not help your position. Indeed, it suggests that your emotions are clouding your judgement. Otherwise, why resort to such a disreputable form of argument?
Why are you being such an asshole? And it's not his position at all, strawman much?
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Being an atheist means one has avoided one silly superstitious belief. It does not mean that one has not fallen into countless other superstitions, nor does it mean that one does not have severely faulty thinking. And it obviously does not prevent one from having a vain hope of immortality.
Who says that they believe that something like that is possible? That it's something that could actually happen? It's called fantasizing and it happens an aweful lot and doesn't qualify as 'silly superstitious beliefs' because it isn't a belief
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 2:17 pm
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: The problem occurs when people's hope for something clouds their judgement and gets them to believe what they want to believe, rather than believe what the evidence suggests. This is called "wishful thinking," and is exactly the same "reasoning" that many Christians engage in when they believe in god and heaven because the idea appeals to them.
Immortality through copying one's consciousness to a computer is an idea some of us explore. Exploring it does not mean we believe it.
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: In the case of copying one's brain and sticking it in a computer, it should be perfectly obvious that a copy of a thing is not the original thing.
I agree. But if my brain is scanned and mapped when I am unconscious for the last time and the patterns are replicated in a computer of some type, what is the difference? From the perception and memory of the new life form, it IS me.
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Being an atheist means one has avoided one silly superstitious belief. It does not mean that one has not fallen into countless other superstitions, nor does it mean that one does not have severely faulty thinking.
Indeed not. But the idea of uploading one's mind is not a superstition and you have a long way to go to demonstrate that it is faulty thinking. Simply saying that it is so doesn't cut it.
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: And it obviously does not prevent one from having a vain hope of immortality.
It's vain to want to live as long as one wants? I draw a blank on that one. Is it vain to go to a physician when one is sick so that he/she may give us more years?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 2:36 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2015 at 2:36 pm by Faith No More.)
I'm still waiting for the evidence of the disturbing amount of atheists that cling to immortality.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm
(February 13, 2015 at 2:36 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm still waiting for the evidence of the disturbing amount of atheists that cling to immortality.
Yeah, well... I'm waiting for the apocalypse. Know any games to pass the time?
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 2:54 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm by Faith No More.)
(February 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm)Norman Humann Wrote: Yeah, well... I'm waiting for the apocalypse. Know any games to pass the time?
No, but I have drugs. Does that work?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 2:56 pm
(February 13, 2015 at 2:54 pm)Faith No More Wrote: No, but I have drugs. Does that work?
How could it not? *snort*
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Immortality might be an interesting experience, if it were offered. Whether I volunteered would depend on whether I had the option of an off switch, like I do now.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 3:21 pm
(February 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: It may be theoretically possible to copy you, but a copy of you isn't you.
So how would you tell an exact copy of you from you?
Source of many bad TV scripts
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwinTropes
and an excellent Steven Wright joke.
Quote: Someone broke into my house...
They stole everything and replaced it with an exact copy. I woke up my roommate and he said, "Who are you?"
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: Well, fuck...may as well just kill ourselves!
February 13, 2015 at 3:32 pm
(February 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Immortality might be an interesting experience, if it were offered. Whether I volunteered would depend on whether I had the option of an off switch, like I do now.
Immortality based on material would obviously have an off switch. It would not be immortality at all, strictly speaking. One would be free from death by aging. A backup would be possible to deal with accidents too but we're not talking about an indestructible being.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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