Two babies discussion.

[Jenny A]

Marriage for life, love your neighbor as yourself, and don't envy your neighbor is not original to the New Testament. You need to read some Greeks. The Babylonians managed love your neighbor as yourself.

They were also theists.

Yes, but their worship of gods did not supply, and was not driven by morality. Early moral philosophers did not appeal to the gods' actions or words to determine what was moral. You see, just because Christianity purports to supply morality, does not mean that all god worship does. Some does some doesn't. And yet both theists who don't appeal to god for morality and atheists have some notions of morality.

But it's okay if christian morality wasn't original.

Okay or not it's true. Jesus' moral teachings were not original.

As Paul stated in Romans, Chapter 1 - no one is without excuse, because God is evident in nature.

You appear to moving the ball here. Are you saying that morality, as a concept, is evidence of god? Because that's quite a leap. Human morality appears to be largely cultural changing depending on time, place, and group. It also appears to have an evolutionary component having to do with the mechanics of social living. You can see inklings of it in our closest relatives and in other social animals.

That morality or nature is evidence of god is just one more argument from ignorance.

[Lek]

So I need the beg *jesus/god* to mediate between me and *god/jesus* to unharden my heart?

Yeah......Sigh.

[Surgenator]

So I need the beg *jesus/god* to mediate between me and *god/jesus* to unharden my heart?

Yeah......Sigh.

And you don't see how this is absurb.

[h4ym4n]

So I need the beg *jesus/god* to mediate between me and *god/jesus* to unharden my heart?

Yeah......Sigh.

I want GC's god.

Did god just give everything to you like it did with GC?

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[robvalue]

Don't they ever get tired of having to defend utterly ridiculous statements like this?

[Lek]

Which is all very convenient, but again, do you have any actual evidence that the biblical authors meant that what they wrote be taken in a way that's precisely opposite to what the words mean?

Here's some evidence.

Romans 3:19-20New International Version (NIV)
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Romans 3:21-22New International Version (NIV)
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Galatians 3:23-25New International Version (NIV)
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Jesus did not say that we are still under the law.

Luke 16:16-17New International Version (NIV)
16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. 17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

He said that he came to fulfill the law.

Matthew 5:17New International Version (NIV)
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

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And you don't see how this is absurb.

No. Why is it absurd? Jesus is God who experienced life on earth directly as a person. Why wouldn't he be the one we would go to?

[robvalue]

So he didn't come to abolish them, but to abolish them. Neat.

I see you stopped short of the very next verse which contradicts you.

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Matthew 5:18New International Version (NIV)

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

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How can it not get tiring having to constantly argue that God means the opposite of what he says?

[h4ym4n]

So he didn't come to abolish them, but to abolish them. Neat.

I see you stopped short of the very next verse which contradicts you.

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Matthew 5:18New International Version (NIV)

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

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How can it not get tiring having to constantly argue that God means the opposite of what he says?

That SHOULD leave a mark.....

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[Lek]

So he didn't come to abolish them, but to abolish them. Neat.

I see you stopped short of the very next verse which contradicts you.

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Matthew 5:18New International Version (NIV)

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

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How can it not get tiring having to constantly argue that God means the opposite of what he says?

Notice that I quoted Luke's version that says the same thing. When Jesus died on the cross "everything was accomplished". You guys are the ones demanding a wooden literal translation of the scriptures; the same thing you make fun of fundamentalist christians for doing. We can't just interpret the bible one verse at a time. How about all the verses I gave you in my earlier post?

[robvalue]

Whoah! Ok. Really?

How... Just how can you convince yourself of this stuff? It really is an amazing skill, to read an incredibly accurately detailed description of exactly what jesus is saying, yet claim he is saying the precise opposite. My word.