Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?

[robvalue]

You can always construct situation in which a "wrong" action becomes the best "good" overall action. But these are going to be extremely rare, convoluted situation and are not much use in the determination of the general moral value of an action.

"Do [horrible action] or else [worse action] will happen."

Of course, you have to consider whether the person making this statement is likely to stick to the "deal" anyway.

[IanHulett]

Rape threats, unsolicited requests for sexual activity, being bullied because of my sexual orientation/slightly feminine personality, and non-consensual physical contact. On a public thread, that's as far as I'm comfortable with going.

Yes I am homosexual and back when I was young I was very feminine, I think that is why I got piked on. Right from when I was only 12, I realized that there was perverts out there, men who wanted to take advantage of me because of my feminism.

I'm a biromantic asexual, with a romantic preference towards the same sex and have been made fun of for being a virgin/not looking for a sexual partner. Sometimes I wonder if my lack of sexual attraction played a part in my experiences, making everybody think I was playing "hard to get" which is a common thing that asexuals are accused of, unfortunately.

[Mister Agenda]

I'm very sorry. In the last post I seem to have not made myself clear. I apologize for this. The information I am compiling is a comparative study on Theistic and Atheistic values and convictions, and their impact on society.

Also since it seems someone took me wrong when I said I wouldn't challenge the belief stated, I guess we can do that in this thread too if you like.

So the question... Does absolute universal moral truth exist? Is there ANYTHING where it can be said that it is morally true universally?

For instance: "Rape is ALWAYS wrong" <<<This would be considered a moral truth. Is it universally true? Is it true even if society deemed that rape was perfectly acceptable?

Is it true even if someone you know won't hesitate to do it says they'll shoot the victim in the head if you don't rape him or her? Seems like it's nearly universally true but doesn't quite make it. To be universally true, there would have to be no scenario where rape is justified.

However, I propose this: it is always wrong for a human to rape unless there are ridiculous extenuating circumstances.

[rexbeccarox]

I really wish I had never looked in on this thread. I'm really, actually, crying right now. The idea that this subject is even debatable is making my chest deflate. I don't think I'll be back to check in.

Sorry, but I just don't see any point to what seems to be appeal to emotion? Hopefully, you aren't speaking as a mod and only just a regular member with this post. I'd hate to start seeing certain topics being banned for discussion just because it triggers certain members. I think it is ok to debate the moral nature of rape so long as no one is encouraging rape here.

Excuse me? Here, we are regular members first and mods second. I am allowed to express any opinion I want here, just as anyone else is. Did you see any threat to shut the thread down or attempt to censor this discussion? No? Right.

Appeal to emotion? Fine. I'm guilty when it comes to rape. I've been raped myself, and now I'm a volunteer advocate for sexual assault victims. I see raped people all the time. I'm the one who sits with them, usually immediately following their rapes, while they're drilled by a cop and examined by a forensic nurse. When people are actually discussing whether rape can ever be morally right, I have a big problem with it, and it's easy to lose respect for anyone who says it can; whether you're going to call it objective or subjective, I don't give a shit. It's wrong, and anyone who says otherwise can go ahead and fuck off. Yeah, I'm emotional.

[Brian37]

Lets put this into the context of evolution.

Rape is an unfortunate reality in evolution and does work in that pregnancies do occur as a result.

But from the victim's point of view it can hardly called moral. It is an act of physical and emotional harm. It is a robbery of the autonomy and control the victim loses when raped. Our species evolved to avoid harm so it cannot be called moral.

We react to other forms of physical and or emotional harm to ourselves. We react when our children are physically harmed. We react when our resources are stolen.

So while evolution does not care which works, we have self value which is where our empathy for others comes from, which is why violating other persons physically or taking their resources without consent will damage the victim to some degree.

[robvalue]

I think that anyone who flat out says the morality of rape is debatable, is either some sort of sociopath, or a complete cunt with an agenda of pushing their ludicrous ideas of superior religious morality. Not that it works, the bible is much softer on rapists than almost any atheist would ever be.

---

And becca: I'm so sorry you had that done to you. I can't imagine how horrible it is and no one should have to go through that. You're doing a wonderful thing supporting those vulnerable people.

[Brian37]

I think that anyone who flat out says the morality of rape is debatable, is either some sort of sociopath, or a complete cunt with an agenda of pushing their ludicrous ideas of superior religious morality. Not that it works, the bible is much softer on rapists than almost any atheist would ever be.

I am not a fan of revenge for any crime. Unless you are stopping a crime in the moment, if you catch someone after the fact, you let the courts and jury take care of it and if convicted lock them up.

Not a fan of trial by mob.

[rexbeccarox]

Thanks Rob

[robvalue]

I think that anyone who flat out says the morality of rape is debatable, is either some sort of sociopath, or a complete cunt with an agenda of pushing their ludicrous ideas of superior religious morality. Not that it works, the bible is much softer on rapists than almost any atheist would ever be.

I am not a fan of revenge for any crime. Unless you are stopping a crime in the moment, if you catch someone after the fact, you let the courts and jury take care of it and if convicted lock them up.

Not a fan of trial by mob.

No, neither am I, I hope that wasn't the impression I gave. Retaliation is not the way to deal with things.

You're welcome Becca

[LastPoet]

Sorry, but I just don't see any point to what seems to be appeal to emotion? Hopefully, you aren't speaking as a mod and only just a regular member with this post. I'd hate to start seeing certain topics being banned for discussion just because it triggers certain members. I think it is ok to debate the moral nature of rape so long as no one is encouraging rape here.

(bold mine)

A mod and admin on this forum is just like any other member, is entitled to discuss as any regular member, please do not question someone's hability to stay objective. Keep your failings, to yourself.

Why, may I ask, did you brought up Rexbeccarox's modship? Look at the bold of mine on your post. That is where you are wrong.

Why calling an appeal to emotion, aren't you doing just the same

Disclaimer: Not speaking as an admin, just calling out the asshole in the room.