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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 8:59 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2015 at 9:00 pm by emilynghiem.)
(February 19, 2015 at 1:38 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: I really wish I had never looked in on this thread. I'm really, actually, crying right now. The idea that this subject is even debatable is making my chest deflate. I don't think I'll be back to check in.
Hi rexbeccarox
I want to cry just reading your msg.
I thought I was the only one who felt that way when I read things on the news on this.
If it's any comfort to you, it is tremendous help to talk things out, right down to the bolts, as to what kind of psychology goes into yes no decisions in people's logic. It helps to learn to think like a complete sociopath if you are going to learn to deal with and manage that kind of person. If we keep setting up our laws and correctional/deterrence systems based on empaths, then we are missing the very criminal elements they are designed for, consequently they fail.
I'm sorry to read this hurts you that much, but please know you touched my heart. I have friends who went through rape, and I didn't say or do the right things and felt stupid that I don't know until they tell me.
The best way is to prevent it. And to do that, we have to understand what makes people tick, what makes them see their will as important, and not the other person as an equal human. Thanks for tolerating this discussion.
The same mindset that allows killers to detach and do their job without thinking, is the same objective mind of the monks and saints who do what is called for and put their own feelings aside. So the same discipline to think objectively can still be used for good. This is a good exercise to let go of our emotions and understand the flat binary logic. And I trust that people here will use that for good.
Love and hugs, Emily
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?
February 19, 2015 at 8:59 pm
If you shoot a necro post in the head does it stay dead?
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 9:00 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 8:49 pm)psychoslice Wrote: (February 19, 2015 at 8:42 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: First of all, I am sorry that you were ever harmed by anyone. No one should ever experience such a thing. However, I believe you are quite mistaken in the idea that one must first be raped in order to know that it is wrong. I assure you, I have never been raped, and I am perfectly certain that rape is wrong, as certain as is humanly possible. Frankly, anyone who does not know that rape is wrong has something very seriously wrong with them. One hopes that they will either get the medication they need, or will be locked up for the safety of society.
Yes your right, I think I said what I said out of anger.
That's okay. You have every right to be angry about this topic.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 9:13 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Murder can be morally acceptable if it constitutes self-defense - Either I kill the guy or he kills me, I don't have a choice.
Rape is always wrong because there's no circumstance that obligates me to rape someone - And please don't bring a magical, almost impossible to happen scenario, I don't care - 99%-100% rapes are not out of self-defense.
I'm with rexbecca Except, self defense isn't murder. Killing another person is later classified as murder which defines an immoral act. Killing is Amoral, and more information is required to determine which bin we sort it in. Sex is Amoral, rape is immoral. Again...
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 9:14 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm by Pyrrho.)
(February 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Murder can be morally acceptable if it constitutes self-defense - Either I kill the guy or he kills me, I don't have a choice.
...
No. You should look up the word "murder" in an ordinary dictionary (though I recommend looking for the Oxford dictionary online). It is not at all the same as just killing. Killing someone in self-defense is not murder.
Edited to add:
I see The Reality Salesman beat me to this idea. But he did not advise you to look it up, which I still think you should do, so that you will see exactly how it differs in meaning from the word "killing."
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Murder can be morally acceptable if it constitutes self-defense - Either I kill the guy or he kills me, I don't have a choice.
Rape is always wrong because there's no circumstance that obligates me to rape someone - And please don't bring a magical, almost impossible to happen scenario, I don't care - 99%-100% rapes are not out of self-defense.
I'm with rexbecca
Hi Dystopia
What I got was the question is
WHY is it wrong, how can you explain it without
injecting biased language or reasoning that isn't universal to all people.
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 9:17 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 8:50 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: You see how absurd this becomes when we try to apply this Absolute Stuff to other experiences that require conscious experience to give them meaning?
Quite
Having read the whole thread, I'm splitting the responses into two categories.
The first are from those who have tried to answer the question of the OP. These people also (as far as I can tell) agree that rape is repugnant and rapists are despicable yet do not claim that rape is absolutely wrong (though generally defend it being objectively bad.) They have had to defend their more clinical responses from-
The second who respond in a more visceral sense and strongly opine that rape is always and absolutely wrong because of the damage done to the participants, society or, well, because it just is.
Reconciling such emotional discord can be impossible. I'd like to think of myself in the first camp. Rape is at least subjectively universally bad. Subjective universality is the same as objective. That doesn't make it absolutely bad ('absolute' as independent of all actors, frames of reference or circumstances.) Objective and absolute are not the same thing. Rape still sucks bricks from the perspective of all remotely human humans. But I can't call it absolutely bad because I don't believe in the independent reality of Aristotelian absolutes, absolute moralities or even the logical absolutes. Please don't hurt me because I didn't say the right thing: that rape is absolutely, always wrong.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?
February 19, 2015 at 9:18 pm
No, in my country killing someone in self-defense fits the description of murder, i.e. killing another human being, but it's justified because I had no choice. Theoretically murder is killing someone else so murder in self-defense is still murder, it fits the description, but it is justified and therefore penalties are excluded. At least this was what I studied in law school, the US may have a different conception of self-defense.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 9:18 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2015 at 9:20 pm by Losty.)
(February 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: (February 19, 2015 at 8:57 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Murder can be morally acceptable if it constitutes self-defense - Either I kill the guy or he kills me, I don't have a choice.
Rape is always wrong because there's no circumstance that obligates me to rape someone - And please don't bring a magical, almost impossible to happen scenario, I don't care - 99%-100% rapes are not out of self-defense.
I'm with rexbecca
Hi Dystopia
What I got was the question is
WHY is it wrong, how can you explain it without
injecting biased language or reasoning that isn't universal to all people.
Why is rape wrong? Is that honestly your question?
(February 19, 2015 at 9:18 pm)Dystopia Wrote: No, in my country killing someone in self-defense fits the description of murder, i.e. killing another human being, but it's justified because I had no choice. Theoretically murder is killing someone else so murder in self-defense is still murder, it fits the description, but it is justified and therefore penalties are excluded. At least this was what I studied in law school, the US may have a different conception of self-defense.
No, we have a different definition of the word murder.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay
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Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?
February 19, 2015 at 9:25 pm
Hey Losty I think I'm confusing myself, I'm talking specifically about "homicide", which means "killing a human being" it its simplest form. There isn't a translated word for "murder" in Portuguese so basically "murder" for me means "homicide", sorry. Language barriers suck
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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