Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?

[Losty]

I can think of a what-if situation of rape where the theist would probably admit it'd be moral to do so, like if Yahweh asked you to rape someone. But otherwise the scenarios would be rare and full of ultimatums, like raping the last female on Earth who refuses to get pregnant or something improbable like that. But in practice, I think everyone would agree rape is wrong but universal truth implies that no caveats can be made, there should always be some small wiggle room with morality. I think history has shown that a bit of wiggle room can get you to the next progressive step forward.

I think raping the last female on earth would still be wrong.

[robvalue]

I agree. It's not like human kind must continue at all costs.

[Dystopia]

I never understood the whole "we must assure our survival". After I die I won't be here, so I don't care if I don't leave descendants. I care about treating people right, and not raping is more important than ensuring the perpetuation of the Human race.

I'm always fond of politicians saying that we must be careful with who we send to war to avoid extinction. Really? If you don't want us to go extinct don't start a war.

[Losty]

I don't understand why anyone care to avoid extinction. You're going to die either way, what do you care if mankind goes on living without you or not?

[DeistPaladin]

I can think of a what-if situation of rape where the theist would probably admit it'd be moral to do so, like if Yahweh asked you to rape someone. But otherwise the scenarios would be rare and full of ultimatums, like raping the last female on Earth who refuses to get pregnant or something improbable like that. But in practice, I think everyone would agree rape is wrong but universal truth implies that no caveats can be made, there should always be some small wiggle room with morality. I think history has shown that a bit of wiggle room can get you to the next progressive step forward.

I think raping the last female on earth would still be wrong.

Agreed. The ends don't justify the means. That's a pretty basic moral concept.

I think my favorite extreme example is in Terminator 2. Should Sarah Conner pull the trigger and murder Miles Benet Dyson? Murdering one innocent man might save 3 billion lives and human civilization. But still, I wouldn't be able to do it in her shoes. The ends don't justify the means.

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I don't understand why anyone care to avoid extinction. You're going to die either way, what do you care if mankind goes on living without you or not?

Now on THAT point, I would disagree. My life is finite. I will die someday. But human civilization will carry on.

I take comfort from the fact that we are becoming progressively more moral and more intelligent over time. While we may individually die, the whole will carry on and the whole has potential for a noble destiny. If we can contribute in some small way, that will be meaning enough.

[Losty]

I think we should work towards making the world and life in general better for future generations. Extinction doesn't seem to be anywhere in our near future anyways, but if the human population were slowly dying out...I wouldn't be too worried about saving us.

[Esquilax]

I think we should work towards making the world and life in general better for future generations. Extinction doesn't seem to be anywhere in our near future anyways, but if the human population were slowly dying out...I wouldn't be too worried about saving us.

I'm genuinely surprised to hear someone with children expressing that sentiment.

I'm not going to go so far as to say any ends justify our survival, because that would be ridiculous, but I'd think the edifice of human civilization deserves some defense, if just for those who would come next.

[Losty]

I'm confused as to why it's surprising. I'm not saying I don't want to save the people who are already living. I'm just saying...I won't be an incubator to save mankind. We do everything we can to make the world and life better for those in the future, but we don't have to keep having more children if the population starts to die out. Human beings are probably the number 1 destroyers of all things good in this world. If we go extinct eventually it would be for the greater good of the earth IMO. I don't think we should try to go extinct I'm just saying I won't be going to extra efforts to increase the population.

[Thumpalumpacus]

My son is the only justification I need to fight for things like a better environment or a just government.

[Losty]

My son is the only justification I need to fight for things like a better environment or a just government.

I feel like you guys are completely missing my point. Even if I didn't have children, I would agree that we should always fight for a better environment and a more just government.