Why are all atheists liberals?

[abaris]

I would go one step further and say that both conservatives and liberals nowadays are both liberals because their ideas are based on liberalism, capitalism, democracy and individual rights.

I agree with most of the points you made, but with this I don't.

If I'm not mistaken, you're from the UK. So what do you make of Cameron? Does he stand for individual rights and democracy how many of us want to understand it? Do any of the Conservatives who are on the forefront crying for more and more surveillance of the citizens? Do they really stand for small government or only when it suits their needs? They love big government when it's all about sniffing out the pants of their citizens. They hate it when it actually provides services that help the population at large.

Also there's a fundamental difference between conservatives and what is broadly called liberal when it comes to capitalism. Conservatives, in their vast political majority, tend to believe in the self regulatory capacities of the market. The left wants some regulations so that 2008 doesn't return for a second helping. Especially when it comes to banking. Also, the consumers and the employees need some kind of protection. Otherwise every shitty food ingredient and every exploit of the workforce is fair game in a situation where it's no longer about private business but large shareholder companies.

[robvalue]

I reckon the church is going to have become more liberal to survive, and to drop all this anti-homosexual shite for starters.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

One thing I do know about Dave is that he doesn't like women sitting on people's faces.

The whole opt-in adult content debacle also pissed a lot of people off. He has a habit of moral pontificating on subjects like this and putting policy through under the radar.

And that's not even going into any of the surveillance stuff.

[Dystopia]

If I'm not mistaken, you're from the UK. So what do you make of Cameron? Does he stand for individual rights and democracy how many of us want to understand it? Do any of the Conservatives who are on the forefront crying for more and more surveillance of the citizens? Do they really stand for small government or only when it suits their needs? They love big government when it's all about sniffing out the pants of their citizens. They hate it when it actually provides services that help the population at large.

I'm not British, but I'll take that as a compliment to my non-native English

I don't know about conservatives in the UK, however they still support democracy, individual rights and capitalism so they are basing themselves on classic liberalism. For them to not be "liberals" in the deepest meaning of the word they'd have to be, at the very least, anti-capitalism and anti-liberalism (meaning that individual rights are less important than the public good)

The fact they support espionage (illegal espionage) doesn't mean they are not basing themselves on liberalism because our entire societies are based on it, basically all of our institutional structures are constructed according to values post-1748. There's reasons why historians say the French revolution changed the course of humanity - For better or worse that's a matter of opinion, right now I'm concerned about the future and I wonder if I'll ever witness a drastic change in human societies - It's something we are never expecting (no one back in 1700 expected feudalism and absolutism to ever end and for something like capitalism to come up)

Also there's a fundamental difference between conservatives and what is broadly called liberal when it comes to capitalism. Conservatives, in their vast political majority, tend to believe in the self regulatory capacities of the market. The left wants some regulations so that 2008 doesn't return for a second helping. Especially when it comes to banking. Also, the consumers and the employees need some kind of protection. Otherwise every shitty food ingredient and every exploit of the workforce is fair game in a situation where it's no longer about private business but large shareholder companies.

Yes but the differences are minor - "Liberals" (or social democrats) support regulation but usually they believe in individual rights, getting the state out of people's private affairs, globalization, free speech, etc - Those differences you talk about are not enough to rebut the claim that both liberals and conservatives get their basic ideas from classic liberalism and post-1748 human societies. A liberal would never support, for example, nationalizing the entire economy or giving the workers control over the means of production, or protectionist economies, corporatism (as exposed by Mussolini), etc.

I understand your point, but my critique is that this distinction isn't that strong because both sides agree on primary values like democracy, free speech, the free market, freedom, capitalism, free enterprise, individual liberty, etc.

Now if you presented me someone who leans Marxist that would be an anti-liberal by definition.

[Cephus]

They're not. Last I saw, an estimated 20% of atheists are conservative, just like I am. There are plenty of conservative atheists out there, they just don't tend to be as vocal about linking their conservatism to their atheism as many liberal atheists are. There hasn't been a conservative atheist movement to declare that if you're not a social justice warrior, you can't be an atheist, which isn't the case for liberal atheists.

[One Above All]

There hasn't been a conservative atheist movement to declare that if you're not a social justice warrior, you can't be an atheist, which isn't the case for liberal atheists.

Never heard of such a movement in my life, from any source. Got a link for that?

[Cephus]

There hasn't been a conservative atheist movement to declare that if you're not a social justice warrior, you can't be an atheist, which isn't the case for liberal atheists.

Never heard of such a movement in my life, from any source. Got a link for that?

You've never heard of Atheism+? Seriously?

[wiploc]

You've never heard of Atheism+? Seriously?

I've heard of the name, because someone on one of these boards asked if it is dead. But this is the first time I've heard a glimmer of what it might be about.

[abaris]

But this is the first time I've heard a glimmer of what it might be about.

Radical fringe group as far as I know. But it's not as if this was even touching on mainstream.

[Neo-Scholastic]

To the OP, contemporary liberalism is predicated on tearing down traditional institutions feel impede the implementation of progress ideas by means of coercive government authority. Religious institutions fall into that category. Progressives brook no challenges to centralized authority.

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To the OP, contemporary liberalism is predicated on tearing down traditional institutions perceived as impediments the implementation of progress ideas by means of coercive government authority. Religious institutions fall into that category. Progressives brook no challenges to centralized authority.