Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief

[Minimalist]

Why not both?  I don't see where those are mutually exclusive.

[DeistPaladin]

Scientology is not really a religion. 

Who's to say what is a religion? What distinguishes a "religion" from "a set of batshit crazy ideas that are believed without evidence and against all evidence"? 

One man with crazy beliefs is an asylum inmate.
Two people with crazy beliefs are a cult.
Three people with crazy beliefs are a respected religion. 

To me, this documentary underscores the problem of offering tax exempt status to "religions". The government then becomes involved in deciding arbitrarily what qualifies and what does not. 

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Why not both?  I don't see where those are mutually exclusive.

To paraphrase the ancient Greek observation: Crazy people think their religion is true. Con artists think their religion is useful. There is a difference, however academic it may be. 

[The Grand Nudger]

It (the xenu narrative) was most likely pomp when it was lectured, and most will never read or see it.  However.....allow me to propose an L Ron Hubbard as a tragic figure, manipulated and cloistered away by the very organization built atop a mountain of pathological lies - which...if he knew them to be false at some point...he most likely did not by the end - a situation many of us will find ourselves in someday.  It's difficult to actually lay the blame for scientology on L. Ron...even in the majority.  The entire organization was (and is) run by a clique of absolutely horrible individuals all hoping to achieve their personal aims - and largely accomplishing that under the cover of religious observance. The St. Pete Times is your go to for Scientology Stories...trust me, google that shit. The completely mundane and humdrum truth of what scientology is and does is more amazing than the stories L. Ron told about alien souls (if, for no other reason...than that it works at all and hasn't evaporated). It's run of the mill avarice and human frailty from every angle.

No sinister genius - but not a deranged or maniacal fanatic either.  He told stories for a living, a gifted writer of pulp fiction - with some batshit ideas on human health and well-being (not uncommon for the time).  Poor old Ronnie seems to have fallen prey to the trilemma, and, as with christ....the truth is probably along the lines of "none of the above". 

Thing that really mystifies me, what I'd really love to find out some day, is why the ground was fertile for scientology. Was it just the wave of batshit health books floating around when Dianetics came out? Why were people looking, what were they looking for...and what does scientology offer to it's adherents (obviously noting that it does not actually do what it claims to do) that puts it in a positively valued place for them? The Clearwater site was big for drug addicts, this much I know (and there are far fewer needles in the sand on clearwater beach nowadays.....lol). I can see how constantly parting an addict with his cash and subjecting him to rudimentary lie detector tests in front of his peers might help to tweak the knobs a little. Kind of macabre, but for some it seems to have worked. : shrugs : -that's just a small bit of it though, what about the rest of the loonies?

[Clueless Morgan]

Was Hubbard crazy or a con man?

I agree with Min - they're not mutually exclusive.

To paraphrase the ancient Greek observation: Crazy people think their religion is true. Con artists think their religion is useful. There is a difference, however academic it may be. 

Again, not necessarily mutually exclusive.  For example, you could begin with the intention to con people, and then after years of conning them and having them tell you that you're prophesies are true and that you're the true leader of the true religion, etc. you start to believe it.

Crazier things have happened.

is why the ground was fertile for scientology.  Was it just the wave of batshit health books floating around when Dianetics came out?  Why were people looking, what were they looking for...and what does scientology offer to it's adherents (obviously noting that it does not actually do what it claims to do) that puts it in a positively valued place for them?

Why is the ground fertile for any cult?  It's something that give you a structure to work within, a set of rules to follow, a set of doctrines to believe, if gives you an explanation for events in your life, or in the universe, why people are bad or good and how you can be one of the Good People (according to the cult's standards) and when you're feeling vulnerable or you're at an emotional low those kinds of offers can be tempting.

As for people who seem to have their wits about them and still choose to join: mind control techniques can be powerful.

[The Grand Nudger]

I've thought the same about structure...however, if you take a look at the bottom end of scientology there actually isn't much structure for the user at all.  They show up, they pay their coin, they air their secrets and fears.  Like a cheap visit to a mall psych. I suppose that they hinty at strtucture, they hint at great mysteries and secrets.....but they don;t actually provide it (because that's the service that they hope to sell - and if they actually gave it to someone then why would they come back?)  Rules...again, not so much....try to find the ten sci commandments?  Doctrine is expensive to acquire...and if you line up 100 scientologists you can expect that not a single one of them will have any idea what the doctrine of scientology actually is (no one really knows, publicly...to be fair).  They just know that they can report back to their auditing center whenever they need the services.  Good, bad, etc...these are things that they absolutely shy away from.  It's hard to extract the coin for an audit if you're judgemental about it.  For judgement...you have to pay extra, and at that point I think it's safe to say that you're pretty well committed.  It really has a different set of operating principles than most other religions - and they take great care to distance their methods as a religion (until the taxman calleth, of course).  

Mind control...though, is absolutely pushing it too far.  They have their little navy...and there are some stories about that barge that boggle the mind.....but mind control is, essentially, magic.  There's no such thing.

I honestly don't think that it's anything that scientology -does- that brings in the bacon. I lean towards to idea that people were looking for -something like it-, and scientology filled a happy gap. They'd been around as an effective non-entity for a long time then they just took off. It didn't appeal to people at all, it seems, until a very definite point in time. Just to take one example..I'm sure we could dream up plenty, but...wish fullfillment is something that we see operating in many faiths. Thing about scientology, is that their business model is predicate on discouraging you from believing that your wish will actually be fulfilled within any definite time either during your life or at any point thereafter. You stay sick, with no hope of a cure..only treatment. That's pretty bleak, definitely not "punch and pie in heaven for everybody and all the people who hurt you will be punished" stuff...you know?

(I spent half my life in the bay area..watched scientology come up down there...collected their little books at yardsales. LOL, used to sit on the pier and watch them mill around in their khakis taking notes about god knows what.........It's a minor obsession for me.)

[Clueless Morgan]

Here's a video I watched a while back that explains why this guy in particular joined.

He was (is?) and aspiring actor and he ran across "workshop" (or an ad for a worshop?) on how to jump start your acting career and he got sucked in to the Hollywood side of Scientology. It's long but it's interesting hearing his story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKqOUMrCw8

[The Grand Nudger]

Slick marketing and recruitment.  It's actually hard to tell that you're being proposition by the Church of Sci, btw.  They're not very overt about it.  
(watching the video)

[Alex K]

Lawrence Wright is a really cool and thoughtful guy

[dyresand]

Here is something from VICE 

[Hatshepsut]

I saw BBC reporter John Sweeney on Scientology back in 2007 so did not look at new documentary.

Although the group uses bait and lead in attempts to suck newcomers into the scheme, I feel you have to be kind of dumb to fall for it. Scientology's cover has been blown for a long time. The affluent folks the Scientologists are looking for should already be onto their game. If potential recruits aren't doing their due diligence before joining, I can't have too much sympathy if they lose...

Scientology has been accused of intimidation, threats, and at least one homicide in the USA regarding ex-members who had held positions of trust in the organization. I don't know how true these claims are; I'm inclined to doubt they are murderers even if they are frauds. They do sue people, though.