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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 6:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 21, 2015 at 5:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 5:46 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You and I agree, I just didn't need a god to get me there. If you stopped believing in god would you change your mind about that value?
(btw, the value you've described isn't inherent, it's assigned.....by god. Had god assigned that value to mushrooms, created them with value you reserve for human beings........ You see, it's nothing about us, not inherent to us..in your description...it's about god, and what god did.)
If I stopped believing in God, I would not change my mind about human life having inherent value because it is so engrained into me.
But I would have a hard time justifying my claim that it does.
(I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, God did create us with value... but it's still about us because He made us that way. So we are that way.) Would we have this "inherent value" if god had not created us, or had not created us the way he did? Look, if you can justify it -with god- but not -without god-........you're going to need to drop the inherent song and dance, it would no longer be a sensible claim. In your description..it does not arise from us...but rather -from what we have been given by another-.
It's a bit like claiming that a birthday present was -inherent- to you because it was currently in your possession.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:04 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 5:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: If I stopped believing in God, I would not change my mind about human life having inherent value because it is so engrained into me.
But I would have a hard time justifying my claim that it does.
(I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, God did create us with value... but it's still about us because He made us that way. So we are that way.) Would we have this "inherent value" if god had not created us, or had not created us the way he did? Look, if you can justify it -with god- but not -without god-........you're going to need to drop the inherent song and dance, it would no longer be a sensible claim. In your description..it does not arise from us...but rather -from what we have been given by another-.
It's a bit like claiming that a birthday present was -inherent- to you because it was currently in your possession.
Honestly, I wouldn't be able to explain how.
Notice how most people who have answered have said they do not believe human life has inherent value. If I had asked in the catholic forum, people would think I was weird for asking such an obvious question.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm
Quote:Obviously, I believe this because I believe that God created human life, and that He created it with value.
It always gets down to the ultimately silly bottom line, doesn't it?
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Obviously, I believe this because I believe that God created human life, and that He created it with value.
It always gets down to the ultimately silly bottom line, doesn't it?
Thank you for your contribution to my thread. I respect your opinion.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 6:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sure, and they're free to say that. Value judgements are personal. It would be strange, don't you think..if someone -else- determined what was valuable -to you-......?
(why not just crib my explanation -or anyone elses-, btw...as you now crib your churches....I don't see any difficulty for you, if you stopped believing..hell, at least the alternative -are- explanations. Yours is simply a statement of the articles of your faith..it explains nothing.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
As atheists, no one has an opinion on that subject. Atheism does not entail anything about the question at all.
In my opinion, value requires a valuer. That is to say, the value of something does not reside in the something, it resides in the individual making the value judgement. See the meaning of the word "value":
Quote:value
noun
1[MASS NOUN] The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something:your support is of great value
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all
Consequently, nothing could possibly have inherent value.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:13 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
As atheists, no one has an opinion on that subject. Atheism does not entail anything about the question at all.
In my opinion, value requires a valuer. That is to say, the value of something does not reside in the something, it resides in the individual making the value judgement. See the meaning of the word "value":
Quote:value
noun
1[MASS NOUN] The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something:your support is of great value
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all
Consequently, nothing could possibly have inherent value.
Thanks for the straight forward reply.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm by Alex K.)
(June 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
As atheists, no one has an opinion on that subject. Atheism does not entail anything about the question at all.
In my opinion, value requires a valuer. That is to say, the value of something does not reside in the something, it resides in the individual making the value judgement. See the meaning of the word "value":
Quote:value
noun
1[MASS NOUN] The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something:your support is of great value
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all
Consequently, nothing could possibly have inherent value.
I agree on all that, couldn't say it better
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:27 pm
Let us concede that, if in no other way, every human life is intrinsically valuable at least to the person whose life it is .. unless they're really miserable. But even in those cases the misery has to be measurable in order to consider giving up the life. So, yes, each human life has value.
Where I draw the line is in valuing it more highly than every other creature. More human lives is not always better than fewer, and we're well past the point where more would be better. Hell we're way past the point where fewer becomes a very good thing. Definitely less is more where people are concerned.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:35 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 6:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
When it's time to cull you from the herd........I'll appeal on your behalf.  It takes a village, eh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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