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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 12:17 am
(July 12, 2015 at 11:54 pm)whateverist Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 10:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So the question would then be, why do I believe the story of Jesus as it is written, while believing in other stories as being allegory? Well, being a Christian means believing in the story of Jesus just as it is said... the immaculate conception, the miracles, the resurrection, etc. This would be another question about why I'm Christian.
[My bold of course.]
Caution, slippery slope ahead. Couldn't someone who takes the stories of Jesus allegorically still count herself a Christian?
When Jesus says "I am the way", it certainly seems reasonable to interpret that as intending his example and not worship. Regardless, who gets to decide who is a true Christian?
Well, He used figure of speech at times... like we all do every day. But that is completely different from the whole story being a fictional tale to teach a life lesson. 
What do you mean? The most basic belief and central belief in Christianity is believing that Jesus was God on earth, was crucified, and came back. That's the fundamental definition of being Christian lol. I don't think I've ever met a Christian who doesn't believe in Jesus. That would be interesting lol. 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 12:22 am
(July 13, 2015 at 12:17 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 11:54 pm)whateverist Wrote: [My bold of course.]
Caution, slippery slope ahead. Couldn't someone who takes the stories of Jesus allegorically still count herself a Christian?
When Jesus says "I am the way", it certainly seems reasonable to interpret that as intending his example and not worship. Regardless, who gets to decide who is a true Christian?
Well, He used figure of speech at times... like we all do every day. But that is completely different from the whole story being a fictional tale to teach a life lesson.
What do you mean? The most basic belief and central belief in Christianity is believing that Jesus was God on earth, was crucified, and came back. That's the fundamental definition of being Christian lol. I don't think I've ever met a Christian who doesn't believe in Jesus. That would be interesting lol. 1. No evidence of magic jesus.
2. Historical jesus more than likely never existed. Also historical jesus never met Pontious Pilate or even was crucified.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 1:24 am
(July 13, 2015 at 12:17 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 11:54 pm)whateverist Wrote: [My bold of course.]
Caution, slippery slope ahead. Couldn't someone who takes the stories of Jesus allegorically still count herself a Christian?
When Jesus says "I am the way", it certainly seems reasonable to interpret that as intending his example and not worship. Regardless, who gets to decide who is a true Christian?
Well, He used figure of speech at times... like we all do every day. But that is completely different from the whole story being a fictional tale to teach a life lesson.
What do you mean? The most basic belief and central belief in Christianity is believing that Jesus was God on earth, was crucified, and came back. That's the fundamental definition of being Christian lol. I don't think I've ever met a Christian who doesn't believe in Jesus. That would be interesting lol.
Since I'm not a such Christian I'll let it go. I thought we did have such a member and recently. I believe she went by "cercatorius". I've PM'd her to clarify if she is willing.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 2:05 am
(July 10, 2015 at 7:47 pm)dyresand Wrote: So for some odd reason or another god gives you a small black box with a single red button on it. He tells you have two options
to either push the button and damning humanity to the second coming of jesus or not to push the button preventing the second coming
allowing humanity to grow advance.
Humanity > imaginary friends. No deal.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 7:37 am
(July 13, 2015 at 1:24 am)whateverist Wrote: (July 13, 2015 at 12:17 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well, He used figure of speech at times... like we all do every day. But that is completely different from the whole story being a fictional tale to teach a life lesson.
What do you mean? The most basic belief and central belief in Christianity is believing that Jesus was God on earth, was crucified, and came back. That's the fundamental definition of being Christian lol. I don't think I've ever met a Christian who doesn't believe in Jesus. That would be interesting lol.
Since I'm not a such Christian I'll let it go. I thought we did have such a member and recently. I believe she went by "cercatorius". I've PM'd her to clarify if she is willing.
Well hopefully she can clarify here and explain what she means. I'd be interested to hear about her views. I've never known of a Christian who doesn't actually believe in Christ lol.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 9:01 am
(July 12, 2015 at 10:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 10:05 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: But how do you determine that one part is real while other parts aren't?!? Is it just acceptance of what's spoon fed to you or is there some actual process?
The stories in the OT sound very bizarre to me, and were written thousands of years ago when writing style could very possibly be different. So it would make sense to believe they are not historically accurate. Especially the story of Genesis, of which there is evidence that proves it's impossible it could have happened literally as it is written.
OK, let me stop you right here. You need to realize something.
The stories in the New Testament sound very bizarre to me, and were written thousands of years ago when writing style could very possibly be different. So it would make sense to believe they are not historically accurate. Especially the story of Jesus, of which there is evidence that proves it's impossible it could have happened literally as it is written.
I only had to change two parts of that text, and the same things are still true about it. How do you justify the belief that the New Testament is more true than the Old Testament when, by your own stated standards, they have approximately the same level of credibility? They both make bizarre, scientifically unlikely claims, they are both old enough to pretty much predate modern science and documentation methods entirely, and there is evidence to suggest that they both contain grossly inaccurate history.
Somewhere around here somebody mentioned the "fact" that archaeology seems to support what the Bible says. This is simply not true. For one thing, there is no archaeological evidence whatsoever to support the Jews being enslaved in nor exiled from Egypt, nor to suggest that they wandered the deserts anywhere near Egypt for 40 years. There is no fossil or rock evidence to suggest a massive, global flood. There is no archaeological evidence to support the existence of a town called Nazareth anywhere in the WORLD during the time Jesus is supposed to have been growing up there. There is a site that christians are claiming is Nazareth, but every piece of evidence that does turn up there turns out to be either forged or from a much later time period when reviewed by mainstream researchers.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 9:07 am
No - keep humanity safe. Even if this 'god' was real, I would prefer it that we solve our problems under our own collective strength than rely on some all-powerful being to shortcut to a solution. I do not think very highly of wish-fulfillment, and religion is a system built exclusively ON wish-fulfillment.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 9:18 am
(July 13, 2015 at 7:37 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 13, 2015 at 1:24 am)whateverist Wrote: Since I'm not a such Christian I'll let it go. I thought we did have such a member and recently. I believe she went by "cercatorius". I've PM'd her to clarify if she is willing.
Well hopefully she can clarify here and explain what she means. I'd be interested to hear about her views. I've never known of a Christian who doesn't actually believe in Christ lol.
Couldn't she believe in him as a teacher and understand the significance of the stories in another way? It would be ironic if "Christianity" was put together by those who didn't actually understand the message correctly.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 10:06 am
Christians rejoice in the Second Advent because it means the restoration of all things: a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21:1) and He will wipe the tears from our eyes (Rev 7:17 and 21:4).
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 11:03 am
(July 13, 2015 at 10:06 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Christians rejoice in the Second Advent because it means the restoration of all things: a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21:1) and He will wipe the tears from our eyes (Rev 7:17 and 21:4).
Way to cherry-pick two verses from a book and ignore all the parts about how he will only do those things for about 144,000 Jews and the rest of us will fry in Hell. Did you somehow miss that?
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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