Atheism & the Death Penalty.

[LadyForCamus]

Hey, that's why I said it was my personal, emotional feeling on the subject, not my well reasoned argument for it with consideration for all the available evidence. [emoji849] Innocent people being executed is obviously a problem.  I'm saying I am not morally opposed to serial killers being put to death, and in fact I believe they deserve it.  

The article you linked to was from 1985.  Have we made any progress toward decreasing the number of innocent people sentenced since then?

1985 was before Texas and a few other states became infamous for rushing the death penalty, therefore I believe the antiquity of the article and the relative short span from the 1973 SCOTUS decision which allowed this says plenty without any follow-up.

Well...then, that is pretty fucked up. I didn't realize the stats were that high. I don't know if I'm ready to say 'ditch the whole thing,' though. There are serial killers in prison who CERTAINLY committed (and even confessed in detail to) the crimes they were convicted of: BTK, Charlie Manson, R. Ramirez (died, I know) for example. I don't see why capital punishment can't be reserved for only the most heinous crimes where the guilt of the accused is unquestionable and involves a legitimate, verifiable confession.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

I'd rather die than have a life sentence with no chance of parole,
unless I knew I was innocent and there was a chance new evidence might come to light to exonerate me,
but by the time science advances enough to show new evidence,
a decade or more may pass.

Also, I think there are instances where violent crimes do not deserve the death penalty as much as some non-violent crimes.

For instance, a doctor who calculatedly betrays trust and knowingly causes disease or irreparable disability
or great suffering, to many people, for the sake of personal gain, to me,

deserves death,

...more than a man who pulls a gun and kills his daughter's rapist, in a rage...you see?

I've also heard of cases where deeply disturbed, extremely violent pedos, rapists, and murderers
have asked for death, and warned authorities to never set them free.

If a person is deranged, and has no control over their violent impulses, and the inside of their head is a living hell,
and keeping them alive in prison is doing nothing other than prolonging their suffering
and costing the public tax dollars....you may as well at least give them the option of assisted suicide.

I think that's less barbaric than letting them suffer.

But I'm painting in broad strokes;
the possible variables from case to case are endless.

There will always be the risk of innocents dying,
and there's just no way that will ever be acceptable;

but I think that the cold hard reality is that if most of us saw what life is really like in some of those places,
and we saw how much worse prison is made, for the non-violent criminals,
by keeping some of the monsters alive,
it would be a wake-up call.

I don't know...something tells me that it's easy to sit comfortably in our homes
discussing lofty ideals about the sanctity of human life,

but when contrasted against the reality of life in those places,
it might seem like a really bad joke.

Death is too good for some people, such as those who commit malicious medical malpractice, but I do agree that physical violence has been much overplayed while those who cause others a lifetime of misery or loss of life after using society to gain the victims' trust deserve to be punished the most severely.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

I disagree that a person should be given a choice between death penalty or life sentence.
I also disagree with the notion of death penalty. It is by nature, well, too much gore, so no.
Mostly because advocates aren't always right and judges tend to make mistakes. So no.

[Ravenshire]

[quote='SnakeOilWarrior' pid='1180861' dateline='1453352963']

Prison overpopulation can be handled far easier by reducing sentencing for/not incarcerating non-violent offenders, releasing three strike inmates who are in for three drug possession felonies and other non-violent inmates, etc...

True. Less chance of happening though.
/quote]

How many would have to die to achieve a notable reduction in our prison population though? Shall we expand capital punishment to include 2nd degree murder? Manslaughter? Rape? Drug trafficking? Third strike drug possesion?

Far better to make rehabilition the primary goal and maintain long term prison sentencing for the worst of the worst.

[tjakey]

Nope. Never.

More expensive than life sentence due to appeals, does not deter crime, focuses on punishment instead of resocialization, poses the very real risk of wrongly executing innocents, and most of all, it's fucking barbaric.

Yep, that about covers it.

[Reforged]

Prison overpopulation can be handled far easier by reducing sentencing for/not incarcerating non-violent offenders, releasing three strike inmates who are in for three drug possession felonies and other non-violent inmates, etc...

True. Less chance of happening though.
/quote]

How many would have to die to achieve a notable reduction in our prison population though? Shall we expand capital punishment to include 2nd degree murder? Manslaughter? Rape? Drug trafficking? Third strike drug possesion?

Far better to make rehabilition the primary goal and maintain long term prison sentencing for the worst of the worst.

We can all make statements on what would happen in a better world. We don't live in a better world.
We live in this one.

[Ravenshire]

We can all make statements on what would happen in a better world. We don't live in a better world.
We live in this one.

Are you not interested in making this one better than it is?

[ohreally]

1985 was before Texas and a few other states became infamous for rushing the death penalty, therefore I believe the antiquity of the article and the relative short span from the 1973 SCOTUS decision which allowed this says plenty without any follow-up.

Well...then, that is pretty fucked up.   I didn't realize the stats were that high.  I don't know if I'm ready to say 'ditch the whole thing,' though.  There are serial killers in prison who CERTAINLY committed (and even confessed in detail to) the crimes they were convicted of: BTK, Charlie Manson, R. Ramirez (died, I know) for example.  I don't see why capital punishment can't be reserved for only the most heinous crimes where the guilt of the accused is unquestionable and involves a legitimate, verifiable  confession.

I'm pretty much in the same camp here.  Although this is one topic that i've turned around on, from pro death penalty, to it's probably better without it, mostly just from looking at the statistics of innocent people wrongly convicted.  Being an innocent person and executed by the state is what nightmares are.  Although I still feel for someone like Debra Tate, Sharon Tate's sister, who's been to 30 parole hearings over 40+ years to keep Charlie Manson in jail.  It seems like punishment to subject her to that type of anguish over and over again.

[Reforged]

We can all make statements on what would happen in a better world. We don't live in a better world.
We live in this one.

Are you not interested in making this one better than it is?

You say that like thats actually the choice. 
Like public opinion actually dictates policy decisions as opposed to the desired policy decisions influencing public opinion through a combination of misdirection, NLP and charisma.
Theres two things you need to remember about the democracy train; its tracks go along the most profitable path. Always. If there isn't some kind of angle to make profit then it doesn't make the list of stops.
The second thing? Nothing changes its course. Ever. You can be on the front of the train or on the back and the level of service you get will scale... but you don't change its destination. You help it along, get run over by it or just sit down and shut up.
Theres no drivers on this train, its automated. Just passengers with varying degrees of usefulness.

[Ravenshire]

Are you not interested in making this one better than it is?

You say that like thats actually the choice. 
Like public opinion actually dictates policy decisions as opposed to the desired policy decisions influencing public opinion through a combination of misdirection, NLP and charisma.
Theres two things you need to remember about the democracy train; its tracks go along the most profitable path. Always. If there isn't some kind of angle to make profit then it doesn't make the list of stops.
The second thing? Nothing changes its course. Ever. You can be on the front of the train or on the back and the level of service you get will scale... but you don't change its destination. You help it along, get run over by it or just sit down and shut up.
Theres no drivers on this train, its automated. Just passengers with varying degrees of usefulness.

You have a truly dark world view.