A few points of conflict with Jackie L's (Eilonnwy) article.

[tavarish]

Here's another exchange:

http://www.facebook.com/eilonnwy/posts/1...ment_reply

I'll quote from LJ

"the absence of a belief system in a particular or generalized deity is still a belief system. atheism is a system of beliefs that denies there is an active deity aka a non-theistic belief system, and is characterized as s...uch because it is a shared system of beliefs (the belief that there is no god) without socio, economic, race, or nationalistic ties. (this is coming straight from a religious studies major) that is still a belief system regardless of whether you personally choose to view it as such or whether atheists as a whole come to a congruent agreement about it. a belief system has nothing to do with religion btw, there are many superstition based belief systems (ie, luck belief systems which include things like lucky clovers, or throwing salt over your shoulder for luck) it is simply a system of beliefs that are contained within or without a construct for supporting those beliefs, often spread across many boundaries such as class and race. agnosticism is also a belief system despite the lack of a rigid structure for practicing beliefs. for someone who so consumed with intelligence, you display an awful lack of it with regards to basic categorizations used in academic contexts. "
http://community.livejournal.com/sf_dram...t561337339

When you read books, talk in atheist forums, go to atheist meetups, listen to atheist podcasts, blogs, livejournal communities etc... under the label of atheism, you have a community. When you have a community you have spokespeople like the 4 horsemen and the idiots commenting in atheist online communities, from them you have a demographic. There is a white male straight demographic and they are dripping with privilege and their "Anti-PC"ness, and it's a disgrace.

This is really fucking simple, but you keep wanting to display your white male privileged asshattery and make sure I know you refuse to get it and revel in your privilege. Good job. Now shut up.

I got to "atheism is a system of beliefs" and then it became all too clear what your point was. Allow me to introduce to you an argument that isn't rife with fallacy.

Atheism is an answer to the question "Do you believe in God." Particularl...y, it is what happens when your answer is anything other than "yes". It is not a belief system, it does not abide by any moral, political, or cultural guidelines, it is an answer to a question. No more, no less. What you have done is erected a set of ideals that stem from your atheism, and condemn others that don't conform to it. As great as that may seem, it's still your ideology and nothing more, and no one is obligated to live by it. Agnosticism is an answer to a question regarding knowledge. It is a belief system in the same way that "Do you know what time it is?" is a tenet for a belief system.

You mean to tell me that when I post on an atheist forum, I'm part of a community? NO WAI!! Thanks for the education, perhaps I couldn't see through my white male guilt to understand that! You're so insightful and convincing!

No shit we're part of a community. You forget to realize that the only criteria for being in that community is an interest in the topic. You don't even have to be an atheist, for fuck's sake. This attracts MANY individuals, lots of people with different views - some of them homophobic, sexist, and racist. If you feel that 4 authors speak for you, then good job on being a cog in a machine that isn't interested in what you think or who you are. Dawkins doesn't speak for me any more than I speak for him. The same goes for any other "spokespeople" in the community. My views are mine and mine alone, the same goes for you, no matter how much you cry about how the community doesn't agree with your points of view.

Members in a community can exhibit similar traits, but at what point is that entire community spoken for by an ideology, and who gets to decide it?
Everyone has belief systems - atheists included. What you're doing is saying that those belief systems are necessarily intertwined because most individuals within that community have the same answer to one question that inherently does not carry any beliefs of its own. That is simply silly and a logically fallacious way of approaching the issue.

If I'm a part of a car community (which I am), and I am bigoted (which I am not) and display that publicly, at what point do I speak for others?

I'll be glad to check my privilege at the door, as I'm not actually white, no matter how much you might think so. But I am a male, which automatically means I must be guilty of not having periods, and that's bad because it means "I don't get it".

Next time you want to demonstrate something, don't use some fucking post from livejournal as if it makes any difference in presenting the issue, when the core meaning of the post is flawed. Asshattery aside, stop being surprised when your inflammatory and fallacious texts turn around and bite you the your ass when people call you out on your rants.

I love the double standards you use. A+.