RE: Humanism
August 25, 2015 at 2:34 pm
(This post was last modified: August 25, 2015 at 2:34 pm by TheRealJoeFish.)
Hmm. I rather disagree with Professor Gray there.
"Darwin shows us that humans are like other animals. Humanists claim they are not." That's a really vacuous statement. We're like all other animals in a whole freaking lot of ways, but to argue that there's no substantive difference between humans and other animals seems untenable.
"In the world shown to us by Darwin, there is nothing that can be called progress." Bullshit. That's just a weird secular rehashing of the "but if we all evolved from monkeys then we're just monkeys so there's no morals so incest and pedophilia and jaywalking are ok" stuff evolution gets. There are a million ways to define progress. That there's no objective progress does not mean that it is impossible or inadvisable to pursue subjective progress. This is an is-ought thing, I think.
"The idea that humanity takes charge of its destiny makes sense only if we ascribe consciousness and purpose and meaning to the human race, but Darwin's discovery was that species are only currents in the drift of genes." Lol wut? "The idea that humanity can shape its future assumes that it is exempt from this truth." No assuming required. Humanity can 1) plan on timescales far in excess of a human lifetime, 2) alter its own genetic code, and 3) reach other celestial bodies. There's no inherent property of evolution that says an organism can't advance to a point where it knows enough about itself to change itself.
And I have no idea at all what he's talking about regarding "salvation" and such. I mean, maybe I do get some of what he's saying. Some people who are, say, humanists, or transhumanists, or whatnot, have replaced "heaven" with "the singularity" and really treat the two concepts similarly, probably to their own detriment. But Grey's argument here has nothing to do with that, really; he might be correct in saying that it's wrong to conflate heaven and progress of the species, but he's way off base in his reasoning.
Edit to add: Basically, Kingpin, I think your signature quote applies perfectly to this passage.
"Darwin shows us that humans are like other animals. Humanists claim they are not." That's a really vacuous statement. We're like all other animals in a whole freaking lot of ways, but to argue that there's no substantive difference between humans and other animals seems untenable.
"In the world shown to us by Darwin, there is nothing that can be called progress." Bullshit. That's just a weird secular rehashing of the "but if we all evolved from monkeys then we're just monkeys so there's no morals so incest and pedophilia and jaywalking are ok" stuff evolution gets. There are a million ways to define progress. That there's no objective progress does not mean that it is impossible or inadvisable to pursue subjective progress. This is an is-ought thing, I think.
"The idea that humanity takes charge of its destiny makes sense only if we ascribe consciousness and purpose and meaning to the human race, but Darwin's discovery was that species are only currents in the drift of genes." Lol wut? "The idea that humanity can shape its future assumes that it is exempt from this truth." No assuming required. Humanity can 1) plan on timescales far in excess of a human lifetime, 2) alter its own genetic code, and 3) reach other celestial bodies. There's no inherent property of evolution that says an organism can't advance to a point where it knows enough about itself to change itself.
And I have no idea at all what he's talking about regarding "salvation" and such. I mean, maybe I do get some of what he's saying. Some people who are, say, humanists, or transhumanists, or whatnot, have replaced "heaven" with "the singularity" and really treat the two concepts similarly, probably to their own detriment. But Grey's argument here has nothing to do with that, really; he might be correct in saying that it's wrong to conflate heaven and progress of the species, but he's way off base in his reasoning.
Edit to add: Basically, Kingpin, I think your signature quote applies perfectly to this passage.
How will we know, when the morning comes, we are still human? - 2D
Don't worry, my friend. If this be the end, then so shall it be.
Don't worry, my friend. If this be the end, then so shall it be.
