Sam Harris On Defining Consciousness

[The Grand Nudger]

Right, and specifically saying that doesn't help to establish it, nor does saying that establish that the energy in the light bulb or fire isn't, or that the brainmeat isn't (and it does this while begging the -entire- question, and simultaneously assuming the conclusion..you don't need to argue it or demonstrate it if you are comfortable with just saying it....).  When asked about -that- we had to make an addition to the givens.  The brain satisfies both givens regarding sentience.  To claim that the brain is not sentient argues against your givens.....so either they -can- be used to establish this sentient energy...as well as sentient brains, or they can't be used to establish sentient brains.....or sentient energy, after all.  As I already mentioned, it's a case of special pleading unless you can explain why it's -actually- special.  

This bit about there being no sentience when there are no impulses does not help either.....because there -are- "impulses" in the lightbulb, in the campfire...and yet still no sentience, presumably - again according to you. So the presence, or lack thereof is no indication of sentience.

Again, these are yours, I gave them from the outset, I have accepted your further comments regarding campfires, lightbulbs, brains, etc - even when they are demonstrably inconsistent or invalid. I insist that you remain within the boundaries you have set, or I see no reason to give you these things in the first place. I'm still not looking to disagree, I'm just looking to get a better explanation for what I have agreed to, making sure that you will adhere to your explanation in a situation you did not conceive of previously.

- I could not take what you've offered, and attempt to convince another person with it, for reasons now explained at length and in different ways. That's where we're at. Where I would like to see us go, is a place that doesn't scuttle the givens or previous statements so completely. Or, as I mentioned all the way back at the beginning, I can just accept sentient energy as a given entirely....absolving you of these problems in your argument completely...and we can come up with some pass and fail criteria for determining what does, and doesn't have this sentient energy business. What energy is, and what energy -isn't- sentient.