(August 30, 2015 at 12:56 pm)deep thinker Wrote: Our discussion represents everything that is beautiful about America. Two people with different belief systems respecting our differences. Too bad this isn't more acceptable in other parts of the world.
I have had all of those thoughts you listed. I cannot believe that all matter has existed forever with no creator. I also cannot believe that all matter was magically created from nothing. Therefore, I believe there is another realm that operates with a completely different reality that our brains are not capable of comprehending, discovering or recreating. I do not understand how a God (creator) could have existed without its own creator. This is similar to an atheist not understanding or knowing how all matter would have been created from nothing or existed forever with no beginning. There is no natural observation for this that we can observe but somehow, our brains have the abstract ability to understand this doesn't make any logical sense. In this way, atheists and theists are more similar then we realize. This is my hope for humanity. People like you and I, with completely different belief systems, are very capable of respecting each other and judging each other by the character of our actions.
We are so blessed to be humans. As far as we know, we are the only species in the universe to think in the abstract. We can love on level not shared by any other species. We can hate each other on a level not shared by any other species. Humans represent the kindness acts of love and the deepest acts of hate all within the same species. We have free will like no other species. We can choose kind actions or evil actions. This is unique. How would matter evolve to such a chaotic state? I believe the bible is our creator's way of trying to explain the next realm with concepts we are able to understand in our current realm.
You cannot believe that all matter was magically created from nothing, but you can believe that this magical god was magically created from nothing? To me, it makes more sense that there is a natural explanation, because I see no reason to believe in anything supernatural. Also, the explanation for matter, likely, isn’t a magical one, but of course, I can’t know for sure. You, then admit that you can’t understand how a god could come out of nothing either. I’m very glad to see that you made it that far to admit that. However, in your next sentence you say that, “This is similar to an atheist not understanding or knowing how all matter would have been created from nothing or existed forever with no beginning.” Again, I say, eternal universe vs. eternal god, which is more likely? If you believe that there can be an eternal god out there, to me, that’s more of a stretch than having an eternal universe, that requires no supernatural explanations. I don’t know enough about the universe, so instead, I don’t make arguments from ignorance, and say that there must be a creator, because I can’t see how this all came about. Our brains are probably so puny compared to what they could be. We think we our enlightened beings that are much smarter than anything out there, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s life out there, that is much much more intelligent than us. If they could see us and our primitive rituals, they’d probably laugh at us. Many humans seem to think they’re special, because of religion or their cognitive capabilities, but I feel I’m no better than any of the animals out there, and that I’m just a small part in nature, trying to fit into the world, and trying to be happy while doing it.
What you say may be true about our ability to think, love, and hate more than any other species. I did just watch the documentary Blackfish, and orcas may have the ability to feel love more than we can when they briefly talked about how their brains were set up. Just because we’re homo sapiens, doesn’t mean that we’re god’s favorite, or created in his image. It took billions of years of life to evolve on this microscopic part of the universe, for us to come around. It doesn’t seem like we are chosen by god, or that the creation myth in genesis is true, because humans have been around longer than it says in the bible, and we didn’t just pop into existence by god breathing into our nostrils. There’s a lot of evidence to contradict those claims.
It seems that you are trying to use the think, hate, and love as evidence that we are special in some sort of way, but try to keep in mind, we aren’t the fastest, we can’t defend ourselves the best in the wild, we can’t jump the highest, we don’t have the best eyesight or hearing, etc. These things may be something for you to think about, if that’s the conclusion that you’re trying to come to (that god created us special in every way better than all of the other animals).
I am open-minded to some sort of higher power out there, but definitely can’t see our species being created in god’s image, or that god loves us more than the other animals, and potentially more than any other creature that might exist out there in the cosmos. That’s something religions forget. There’s an estimated 2 billion planets out there that could contain life, so, going by probability, I’m going to say that the other evolved lifeforms that probably exist out there, don’t know jesus is their savior, or that the Hindu gods should be given food offerings. These are man-made constructs. Thanks again for the chat, and the open-mindedness.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' -Isaac Asimov-
