Your Suggestions Would Be Appreciated

[Drich]

Hey guys, a family member wrote me a statement, parts of which had to do with Christianity, and I'm going to critique it and email her back. I just wanted to run it by you guys and ask your thoughts on the matter. Do you agree with my critique? Disagree? Would you add anything in? Was I too harsh? Did I say something stupid? I'd love to hear your thoughts. And thank you guys for your input on the last thread I'd started, your help was invaluable in crafting my response as I really didn't know much about where the Christian idea of eternal torture came from. Thanks guys!

so long as you are willing to receive a critique as quickly as you give one, we are good.

Her full statement: When I was becoming a Christian, I was fascinated by how many fundamentalist Christians practically slavered over the possibility that God would provide the Rapture, which meant God magically summoning all the "good" people to Heaven and damning all the evil ones to a very uncomfortable Hell (including those who had never heard of Jesus and babies). What a wonderful idea: just separate all the good people out of the world and send the rest to Hell. Well, that's when I quit being a capital C Christian and became a follower of Jesus' principles. How could anyone imagine that the Jesus who preached brotherly love and peace making would condone such a thing. It would be laughable if it weren't so easy for the believers, terribly ignorant and violent s they are, to spread their influence. Who on Earth would you condemn to death; I can't think that I would be able to condemn anyone, mostly because I have lived long enough (committed enough deadly sins myself) and known enough people intimately that I know that good and evil are both part of the Holy Spirit inside of each and every one of us. Everybody has a choice: to forgive or seek revenge; to hate or love our enemies; to try to make something good in the world, something that makes a better world for all creation or to pursue being money-grubbing, self-centered assholes.

She has some fundamental core issues in her understanding of the final judgement and the rapture, but seeing as you did not address any of them, it does not seem you are really interested in what the bible actually says, I see no point in throw your friend under the bus. She is close enough.

(I proceeded to break it down some and address certain  parts of it)

"Well, that's when I quit being a capital C Christian and became a follower of Jesus' principles."

a "C"hristian is a follower of Christ that HE deems or judges to be Christian. Everyone one else is 'c'hristian. We can not judge ourself  'C'hristian that is Christ's job.
 

Well I would certainly hope that you’d apply some critical thinking skills to Jesus’s ideas and not blindly believe everything he said; he did after all have a number of rather stupid and immoral ideas. I can think of a few right off the top of my head. "Take no thought for tomorrow," would be an excellent example; I’ve argued with Christians who use this verse to justify abusing the environment.

If you do not live naked and in a hollowed out (through natural erosion) tree you are abusing the environment. "Take no thought of tomorrow" is what is called a verse scrap. It does not reflect the context of the message. Both of you (him for using the verse scrap as a excuse for wanting to drive cars and have electricity, and you saying the verse scrap make Jesus Immoral) are foolish and guilt of mining the bible for scraps to justify what you want to believe. This is an intellectually dishonest practice.

Another example that comes to mind would be the idea of vicarious redemption that he introduced.

So... to you redeeming people.. Is immoral? seriously? What kind of messed up version of pop morality do you subscribe to?

To tell you the truth I find the death and resurrection of Jesus to be one big spectacle of god’s immorality (not to mention a total sham).

How is resurrection immoral?

"How could anyone imagine that the Jesus who preached brotherly love and peace making would condone such a thing.

You are aware that 'peace and brotherly love' Christ taught did have it's limits right? Or is humiliating the pharaisees over and over again, and whipping the money changers in the temple were the examples of the 'brotherly' love your thinking Christ taught.

It would be laughable if it weren't so easy for the believers, terribly ignorant and violent s they are, to spread their influence."

You do know that no one in Christianity is currently waging a war to try and force belief. we are not cutting people's heads off and posting it on line. I think you've confused Christianity with another religion.

Uhh… Have you ever read the Bible?

You do realize it says retarded shit like this, right?
 
2 Thessalonians 1
6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
 
Jude 1:
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
 
Revelation 14
11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
 
Revelation 20
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Amen! Which again is consistant with the other part of Jesus' ministry that you seem to be completely ignorant about.
 

Now, I don’t know about you, but I get the feeling that if you had the opportunity to question Jesus and ask him if he thought the biblical idea of eternal torture was moral; his answer would be a resounding “yes!!” I mean, could you REALLY, HONESTLY say he would disagree with something that his own holy scripture says? And even if you could, I would still contend that it’s definitely understandable how other Christians could conclude that he would be in agreeance with the Bible’s message, after all, he did supposedly author it. The Bible is a vague book and there are many different ways in which one might interpret it that would be completely understandable. Yours is just one of many.

JESUS INTRODUCTED AND IN DETAIL DESCRIBED HELL FOR THE FIRST TIME!!
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancr...bout-hell/

The above is a link to what he had to say
 

As far as that bit about believers being ignorant, the fact that you’ve seemingly overlooked the passages I pointed out makes your statement highly ironic (you’re obviously one of those Christians that likes to cherry pick from the Bible).

I would largely agree that believers are ignorant in many areas (mainly when it comes to how congruent their beliefs are with reality), but I don’t think that their immoral archaic ideas stem from ignorance of the Bible, in fact I would argue just the opposite and say their attitudes (generally) arise from a more complete understanding and acceptance of the Bible’s message; it really is an obnoxious horrible book. I applaud you for adopting a moral code better than the atrocious one advocated in the Bible, but one CAN arguably reason that Jesus would have condoned and even advocated for some pretty horrible attitudes and ideas.

yeah like forgiveness!!!
 

“I know that good and evil are both part of the Holy Spirit inside of each and every one of us.”

who are you quoting?

Please Define "holy spirit." This term is meaningless to me.

Hold on to something, because I'm about to make the meaningless, meaningful... Holy Spirit= God!