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Evil
#70
RE: Evil
(September 11, 2015 at 4:40 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: A Moral Lawgiver is required when raising the question of evil.  If there is no moral lawgiver, then there is no good, no evil.  If we are created in the imago dei, then our very being/essence has intrinsic worth. 

If our intrinsic worth is not exterior or from God, and it has instead evolved without God, then the value or worth of each individual is forever changing. It is therefore not permanent but ever changing. And if it is changing, then who will give it value, what value, and when? Is it a person or persons that gives each person intrinsic value? Is it a creed? Is it a king? Is it a nation or government? If this is so, then anyone at any age may change the meaning as they please. This is then crucial. Intrinsic human value has to come from God, God who transcends us. Only then will our value be eternal and never up for the whims of change, the winds of change. Only then will it be anchored. Evolution cannot give value to human beings because it is always changing and that means no absolutes, no anchor. Essential worth means not conveyed worth or secondary worth. We are all created equal.

This is a terrible argument.  It fails to validate the existence of Objective Morality, if there is Objective Morality we know that the 'lawgivers laws' are immoral or amoral (just read the only part of the bible written directly by this supposed lawgiver).  Lastly it sticks the theists on the horns of a dilemma, which they attempt to escape (and cannot) with the defence "morality is part of gods nature".  This defence is fundamentally flawed: 1) we descend into non-cognitivsm, 2) god has no nature he is supenatural 3) the theists is still on the horns anway.

So what is it?.  Is god good because of an external standard (and therefore he is not the lawgiver) or does goodness exist because god wills it (making morality subjective)
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
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Messages In This Thread
Evil - by GenericAthiest - August 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm
RE: Evil - by Aoi Magi - August 17, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: Evil - by Longhorn - August 17, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - August 17, 2015 at 3:10 pm
RE: Evil - by Longhorn - August 17, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: Evil - by GenericAthiest - August 17, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Evil - by Aoi Magi - August 17, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Evil - by GenericAthiest - August 17, 2015 at 3:18 pm
RE: Evil - by Chad32 - August 17, 2015 at 3:08 pm
RE: Evil - by Wyrd of Gawd - August 30, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - August 17, 2015 at 3:44 pm
RE: Evil - by Longhorn - August 17, 2015 at 3:44 pm
RE: Evil - by downbeatplumb - August 30, 2015 at 3:21 am
RE: Evil - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 30, 2015 at 6:19 am
RE: Evil - by Captain Scarlet - September 16, 2015 at 2:09 pm
RE: Evil - by brewer - August 17, 2015 at 3:55 pm
RE: Evil - by Minimalist - August 17, 2015 at 3:58 pm
RE: Evil - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 30, 2015 at 6:14 am
RE: Evil - by Aoi Magi - August 18, 2015 at 3:48 am
RE: Evil - by GenericAthiest - August 18, 2015 at 6:11 am
RE: Evil - by ignoramus - August 18, 2015 at 5:16 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 18, 2015 at 7:09 am
RE: Evil - by Wyrd of Gawd - August 30, 2015 at 3:01 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 30, 2015 at 3:16 am
RE: Evil - by Wyrd of Gawd - August 30, 2015 at 3:21 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 30, 2015 at 3:29 am
RE: Evil - by downbeatplumb - August 30, 2015 at 3:31 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 30, 2015 at 3:33 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - August 30, 2015 at 3:53 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 30, 2015 at 4:03 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - August 30, 2015 at 4:13 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 30, 2015 at 5:19 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - August 30, 2015 at 7:14 am
RE: Evil - by downbeatplumb - August 30, 2015 at 7:30 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 30, 2015 at 9:17 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - August 30, 2015 at 10:16 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 31, 2015 at 8:20 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 31, 2015 at 10:11 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 1, 2015 at 6:06 am
RE: Evil - by bennyboy - August 31, 2015 at 11:19 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - August 31, 2015 at 11:33 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 1, 2015 at 6:18 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 3:02 am
RE: Evil - by Sappho - September 9, 2015 at 9:03 am
RE: Evil - by Catholic_Lady - September 9, 2015 at 4:15 pm
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 6:53 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 11, 2015 at 1:25 am
RE: Evil - by ignoramus - September 1, 2015 at 7:25 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 7:53 am
RE: Evil - by Athene - September 9, 2015 at 4:14 pm
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 11, 2015 at 3:08 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 11, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: Evil - by Kingpin - September 11, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: Evil - by Tartarus Sauce - September 11, 2015 at 3:50 pm
RE: Evil - by Kingpin - September 11, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 11, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: Evil - by Kingpin - September 11, 2015 at 4:40 pm
RE: Evil - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 11, 2015 at 5:22 pm
RE: Evil - by Kingpin - September 14, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: Evil - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 1:27 pm
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 11, 2015 at 5:25 pm
RE: Evil - by Captain Scarlet - September 15, 2015 at 6:49 am
RE: Evil - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 11, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: Evil - by Tartarus Sauce - September 11, 2015 at 5:17 pm
RE: Evil - by Kingpin - September 11, 2015 at 5:21 pm
RE: Evil - by Tartarus Sauce - September 11, 2015 at 5:33 pm
RE: Evil - by Kingpin - September 11, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 14, 2015 at 11:54 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 15, 2015 at 3:46 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 15, 2015 at 6:23 pm
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 16, 2015 at 3:00 am
RE: Evil - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 16, 2015 at 3:45 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 16, 2015 at 4:11 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 16, 2015 at 5:16 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 25, 2015 at 12:57 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 25, 2015 at 5:55 am
RE: Evil - by Mudhammam - September 25, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 26, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: Evil - by robvalue - September 30, 2015 at 9:00 pm
RE: Evil - by Reforged - September 30, 2015 at 9:29 pm
RE: Evil - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2015 at 9:30 pm

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