RE: Hi, I'm a Christian. Help Me Disprove My Religion!
September 23, 2015 at 11:16 am
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 11:18 am by TheRocketSurgeon.)
Good analysis, Aractus. I don't doubt that Paul knew the disciples (indeed, it's my hunch that he was not converted "on the road to Damascus" by a vision, but was converted during the process of Christian-hunting on behalf of the Romans, and ran in his own direction--influenced by his Pharisee background--with the information he had, one of the reasons Paul seems so different in tone from Jesus, and why I like to joke that modern Christians are actually "Paulians"), but it's clear from his own writings that they considered him a fanboy and questionable in his theological approach. Nevertheless, I don't think one should throw the baby out with the bathwater, with regard to Carrier. His questionable results should be criticized, most heavily of all by us, but his speculations may produce fruit when turned over by other scholars, and at the very least I find his speculations about the relatedness of Hebrew theology to the theological inputs of now-extinct religions to be useful in forming a picture of the ancient mindset.
As a side note: There's a song by the band Toad the Wet Sprocket, called "Fly From Heaven", which speaks on the subject of Paul's embellishments to the story of Jesus, which I've always loved. It's sung from the perspective of James, though it never mentions James, just hints that it was James when the singer complains "Change him into my brother, change the things that he said. Says that he speaks to him, but he never ever knew the man. But I'd've given my life for him."
Edited to add the video:
As a side note: There's a song by the band Toad the Wet Sprocket, called "Fly From Heaven", which speaks on the subject of Paul's embellishments to the story of Jesus, which I've always loved. It's sung from the perspective of James, though it never mentions James, just hints that it was James when the singer complains "Change him into my brother, change the things that he said. Says that he speaks to him, but he never ever knew the man. But I'd've given my life for him."
Edited to add the video:
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
