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**robvalue** · (This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 6:10 am by robvalue.)

~~Mystic~~ · September 23, 2015 at 6:37 am

(September 23, 2015 at 12:10 am)WishfulThinking Wrote: It never really occurred to me that there could be a hell without a religion. I'm apologize if I'm being obtuse, but how do you investigate it without the two tying together? It seems that the last question could have an entirely different answer depending on whether or not hell and a religion were intertwined. Forgive me for not understanding, but what do you mean by morality being properly basic?

For example showing compassion (in general) is good, is properly basic fact of morality. You cannot prove it to be a feature, you simply have to accept it through vision or faith. Goodness in itself, that is being good to be good, itself, is a properly basic belief/faith/sight, it's not something that people believe due it be proven from outside itself.

SofaKingHigh · September 23, 2015 at 6:46 am

(September 23, 2015 at 6:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote:
(September 23, 2015 at 12:10 am)WishfulThinking Wrote: It never really occurred to me that there could be a hell without a religion. I'm apologize if I'm being obtuse, but how do you investigate it without the two tying together? It seems that the last question could have an entirely different answer depending on whether or not hell and a religion were intertwined. Forgive me for not understanding, but what do you mean by morality being properly basic?

For example showing compassion (in general) is good, is properly basic fact of morality. You cannot prove it to be a feature, you simply have to accept it through vision or faith. Goodness in itself, that is being good to be good, itself, is a properly basic belief/faith/sight, it's not something that people believe due it be proven from outside itself.

I strongly doubt that paragraph has helped to clear anything up.

**Aractus** · September 23, 2015 at 7:25 am

**Nay_Sayer** · September 23, 2015 at 7:38 am

Prove your religion has any footing in reality and I might.

pocaracas · September 23, 2015 at 8:59 am

Hey, WT. Welcome aboard!

At its base, you do not disprove christianity. You merely watch as the faithful fail time and time again to prove it.

Belief in a tale is no proof of the truthfulness of such tale.
All books in the bible are written by believers... believers in the accounts of others, at best... believers in the made up accounts of themselves, at worst... none were written by actual witnesses of the events... even if some do claim to be.

**Aractus** · (This post was last modified: October 8, 2015 at 3:51 am by Aractus.)

~~Mystic~~ · September 23, 2015 at 9:40 am

(September 23, 2015 at 6:46 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: I strongly doubt that paragraph has helped to clear anything up.

He asked how morality is properly basic or relies on properly basic belief.

**Whateverist** · (This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 10:51 am by Whateverist.)

(September 22, 2015 at 8:00 pm)WishfulThinking Wrote: I don't think I can find it within me to leave my religion behind without proof that it's false, even if I can't back my faith up.

This is all you needed to post. Looks like you're stuck with your religion.

There can be no argument in favor of non-belief except in so far as what is claimed contradicts what is known. Since god claims are classified as supernatural, contradiction with the natural world is no longer relevant .. assuming you accept that the set of supernatural things is empty as I do. However, even there I have to admit my belief regarding the emptiness of the set of supernatural things is my own bias.

For most of us, non-belief is the default response to baseless claims, especially when the claims are extraordinary verging on absurd regarding entities which are poorly defined. I can't help you shed your onerous beliefs so long as your own bias is to imagine the set of supernatural things to be teeming with entities. Maybe 'god' will help you. I can't.

TheRocketSurgeon

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