RE: Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist
September 23, 2015 at 9:57 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 10:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 23, 2015 at 9:23 pm)bennyboy Wrote:No...you aren't, if the manner in which you choose to do so is QM/QFT. Nevertheless this has nothing to do with what you quoted..it is not a response -to- what you quoted.(September 23, 2015 at 7:45 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yes, you did...and that reason is/was an explicit invocation of a fallacy of composition.I'm not refuting materialism, since I'm substance agnostic. I'm refuting that materialism has sound foundations.
Quote:Sure I do, since I can accept the observations of modern physicists without accepting their philosophical assumptions. I accept the reality of QM/QFT in terms of describing our experience of the universe as we've so far investigated. However, I do not accept that these squirrely, ambiguous, math-described entities are better represented as things than as ideas.No, this is not an opinion, it's a condition of the system you are using, Benny. Stolen......concept. But who cares.....that you have a problem with your own description of QM and QFT as being amenable to materialism doesn't matter much, since that description bears little resemblance to QM or QFT. You "do not accept" x y and z...but these things aren't described as x, y, or z. If you think that "Benny's QM™" argues against materialism, present Benny's QM™..otherwise, get your hand out of the cookie jar. Electrons push back, that's just what we observe. If they aren't really pushing back..if they aren't actually there at all, if they're just ideas...then QM and QFT mean -nothing-...it's just some strange but effective illusion.
Quote:That's right-- it may or may not be. However, given that mind is all I really know, and given that all the science we've been talking about is known only through mind, I feel reasonably justified in pulling out Occam's Razor and eliminating what I see as the extra assumption.Then you are not an idealist, and it is -still- a fallacy of composition. In any case, you don't actually remove any assumptions here - it;s just another dodge you won't remain consistent to. You assume that QM and QFT (regardless of how poorly you understand either) are informative of and referent to something other than just your mind...or you wouldn't feel comfortable making -any- metaphysical claims - nor would/could you offer QM as evidence of such regardless of what you think they are referent to .
Logic is an unyielding system, learn the damned rules. Science is a very specific endeavor - learn what it actually says.
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