Theism and Choice

[robvalue]

I agree totally. It's a point I find myself making in almost every discussion with a theist at some point. I've come to the conclusion that if the theist thinks that belief or non belief is a choice, then actually they don't really believe. They are choosing to say they believe. If you actually do believe something, there is no choice required or indeed possible. I can't stop myself believing something any more than I can choose to believe something (without a reason to do so).

The thing that is a choice is whether or not to join a religion, given that you think it is "true". For many theists, they literally cannot seem to understand this. They assume belief leads logically and inevitably to joining the religion. It certainly does not. Atheism is simply a reaction to reality; not being part of religion is a position I would stick to regardless of whether I'm an atheist, a theist, or someone who believes in Yahweh.

Yes, many theists have been brainwashed into the idea that morality comes from religion/God. They sometimes think they would be out of control monsters if it weren't for their religion. At least 90% of the time I'd guess they are completely mistaken. They've just been convinced it's true, as part of the package. What religion is really doing is taking credit for people's natural morality by insisting it's so amazing it must have a magical explanation.

The big problem with some religious theists finding atheists immoral is when they compare atheists to some sort of dogmatic objective list of "morality" their religion gives them. Against such a list, totally harmless things can be judged to be "immoral". So basically, if we're not just following the rules of their religion (why would we?) we are immoral. It's entirely circular, and has nothing to do with morality. It's blind obedience. Morality is only genuine when you think for yourself. Otherwise you are not considering what actually makes something moral or immoral.