Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: October 12, 2025, 2:57 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Convert me if you can
#24
RE: Convert me if you can
(January 1, 2011 at 8:48 am)Rayaan Wrote: Because in Islam there is something called hadith, which are basically narrations concerning the words and deeds of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in regard to Islamic matters. The authenticity of hadiths are strengthened by a sound chain of narration and by numerous, corroborating reports. The hadiths are an important part of preserving the teachings of Islam (in addition to the Quran).

I'm not sure the Hadiths are universally accepted as authentic or canonical by Muslims. I've debated with some who accept some of the Hadiths but not others and one who rejects them all as folklore, that only the Koran can be used to debate Islam. I will grant that none of these are Imams or Islamic scholars so perhaps they are just heterodox Muslims. I'll just pose the question are you certain that the Hadiths are so universally accepted as true by mainstream Muslims?

If that's the case, I'd consider it to be the analog to the Book of Acts of the Apostles, which has been incorporated into the Bible as canon but nonetheless serves the same purpose. This argument's a wash.

Quote:And this reveals a contradiction between two of your arguments on Islam and Christianity, which are:

1. Islam seems to be far more crude than Christianity for several reasons.
2. That there's not a dime's worth of difference between Islam and Christianity

The first contrasts the case for Islam with the case for Christianity.
The second deals with what these religions preach, represent, the nature of their god, the nature of their afterlife, the nature of their moral code, and what they do to the people and nations that adopt them.
One is about whether or not its true.
The second is about what these religions are.
Clear?

Quote:Again, the "God spoke to me" argument of yours can also be applied to Jesus and all the other prophets of the Abrahamic religions, not only Muhammad (pbuh). Therefore, it's not a rational thing to single out only Muhammad from the other prophets in such a manner as to justify that this is what makes Islam a little more "crude" than Christianity, which is obviously wrong because that's an over-simplification of Islam, and secondly, the same thing can be said for Christianity also (that "some guy claimed that God spoke to him"). How is that any different from Islam?

The debate between whether my role-playing self should hypothetically convert to Christianity or Islam is over what Jesus was. Both religions agree that Jesus spoke to God and carried a message of revelation to the people. The disagreement is over whether he was a prophet and forerunner of Muhammad or whether he was an intercessor with God. The Christians have a slick package of supposed eye-witnesses and the traditions of a church established by Jesus and his apostles and disciples who would have personally known him or lived within his lifetime. Muslims have some guy who came along much later who wouldn't have known squat about Jesus except what he was told from the very people who he claims got it all wrong. Clear?

Quote:As I already mentioned before, there are many authenticated hadiths (or narrations) from the mouths of various people who lived during Muhammad's own lifetime which serve as eye-witness accounts of his actions, character, and his teachings. Furthermore, I can make a whole topic on the science of hadith collection and authentication if you want me to.

Fine but do any of these eye-witness accounts offer any testimony about Jesus? Again, it's about who knew Jesus better.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 28, 2010 at 4:20 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - December 28, 2010 at 4:52 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 28, 2010 at 5:04 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by sarah2011 - April 14, 2011 at 6:33 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - April 15, 2011 at 1:50 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - December 28, 2010 at 7:08 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 28, 2010 at 10:11 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by annatar - December 28, 2010 at 9:32 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Zen Badger - December 29, 2010 at 6:35 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - December 29, 2010 at 6:02 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 29, 2010 at 9:31 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - December 29, 2010 at 12:56 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 29, 2010 at 3:25 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - December 30, 2010 at 4:56 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - December 30, 2010 at 6:10 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 30, 2010 at 11:12 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - December 31, 2010 at 11:48 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 31, 2010 at 12:28 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 2, 2011 at 4:36 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 3, 2011 at 9:19 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 5, 2011 at 5:32 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 5, 2011 at 6:07 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 11, 2011 at 2:33 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Edwardo Piet - December 29, 2010 at 7:34 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by annatar - December 29, 2010 at 2:12 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Anomalocaris - December 30, 2010 at 11:20 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - December 30, 2010 at 11:32 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - December 31, 2010 at 10:18 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 1, 2011 at 8:48 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 3, 2011 at 1:36 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - January 1, 2011 at 9:33 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Minimalist - January 1, 2011 at 1:23 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 2, 2011 at 12:21 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by barboft - January 3, 2011 at 9:44 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 3, 2011 at 10:11 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Edwardo Piet - January 3, 2011 at 9:56 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by barboft - January 3, 2011 at 10:01 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Edwardo Piet - January 3, 2011 at 10:09 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by barboft - January 3, 2011 at 10:13 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Edwardo Piet - January 3, 2011 at 11:18 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by barboft - January 3, 2011 at 11:45 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by GodIsNotGreat - January 3, 2011 at 12:52 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 3, 2011 at 3:41 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 3, 2011 at 4:36 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - January 4, 2011 at 4:20 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Edwardo Piet - January 12, 2011 at 8:42 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 14, 2011 at 9:08 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 14, 2011 at 11:20 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 16, 2011 at 5:18 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Edwardo Piet - January 14, 2011 at 9:19 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 14, 2011 at 7:00 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 14, 2011 at 7:52 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 15, 2011 at 9:03 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 15, 2011 at 11:17 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 15, 2011 at 4:28 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - January 15, 2011 at 7:12 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - January 15, 2011 at 7:00 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 15, 2011 at 7:10 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 15, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 15, 2011 at 9:10 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - February 12, 2011 at 8:51 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - February 13, 2011 at 12:06 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Faith No More - February 13, 2011 at 1:01 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Minimalist - January 15, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by dqualk - January 15, 2011 at 9:59 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 15, 2011 at 10:07 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 15, 2011 at 10:16 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by annatar - January 16, 2011 at 1:21 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 16, 2011 at 6:59 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by annatar - January 16, 2011 at 7:29 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 20, 2011 at 5:39 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - January 21, 2011 at 11:07 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - January 22, 2011 at 7:37 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 22, 2011 at 4:17 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - January 23, 2011 at 12:37 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by dqualk - January 23, 2011 at 1:05 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ashendant - January 23, 2011 at 6:36 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - February 5, 2011 at 5:01 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - February 6, 2011 at 12:05 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Regens Küchl - February 7, 2011 at 6:05 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - February 6, 2011 at 8:27 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Anomalocaris - January 23, 2011 at 1:44 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by dqualk - January 24, 2011 at 1:57 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 7, 2011 at 4:04 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - February 7, 2011 at 6:55 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 10, 2011 at 6:10 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - February 12, 2011 at 12:06 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - February 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 14, 2011 at 2:18 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2011 at 2:29 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 14, 2011 at 2:37 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2011 at 3:40 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Skipper - February 14, 2011 at 4:01 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Darinda - February 14, 2011 at 4:16 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Skipper - February 14, 2011 at 4:35 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - February 14, 2011 at 4:29 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 14, 2011 at 5:04 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 16, 2011 at 6:42 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by reverendjeremiah - February 16, 2011 at 12:07 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - February 17, 2011 at 4:33 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 17, 2011 at 6:03 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - February 17, 2011 at 6:59 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by reverendjeremiah - February 17, 2011 at 10:13 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 17, 2011 at 3:22 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by ozgoat - February 17, 2011 at 5:08 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by reverendjeremiah - February 17, 2011 at 5:44 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 18, 2011 at 6:11 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by reverendjeremiah - February 18, 2011 at 8:52 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 19, 2011 at 7:44 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - February 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by annatar - February 19, 2011 at 9:26 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - February 19, 2011 at 10:10 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by annatar - February 20, 2011 at 8:19 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - February 21, 2011 at 12:37 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 21, 2011 at 7:11 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by reverendjeremiah - February 21, 2011 at 1:43 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - February 21, 2011 at 9:28 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 22, 2011 at 12:30 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by padraic - February 23, 2011 at 9:27 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Rayaan - February 24, 2011 at 3:55 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Ace Otana - April 14, 2011 at 6:52 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by alemcodon - April 19, 2011 at 1:10 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Napoléon - April 19, 2011 at 1:50 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by reverendjeremiah - April 19, 2011 at 1:19 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by thesummerqueen - April 19, 2011 at 2:09 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by ruhollah - April 21, 2011 at 11:09 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by KichigaiNeko - April 22, 2011 at 5:51 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - April 24, 2011 at 3:30 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by alemcodon - May 11, 2011 at 6:58 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - May 11, 2011 at 11:58 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Napoléon - May 11, 2011 at 12:56 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by alemcodon - May 12, 2011 at 6:02 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by DeistPaladin - May 12, 2011 at 11:39 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by alemcodon - May 12, 2011 at 7:02 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by tackattack - May 12, 2011 at 8:34 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Napoléon - May 12, 2011 at 11:11 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by tackattack - May 12, 2011 at 11:45 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Gawdzilla - May 12, 2011 at 11:46 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Autumnlicious - May 12, 2011 at 1:57 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by alemcodon - May 13, 2011 at 6:53 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by LastPoet - May 13, 2011 at 7:04 am
RE: Convert me if you can - by Cinjin - May 14, 2011 at 1:40 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by R00tKiT - August 12, 2022 at 6:18 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Fake Messiah - August 12, 2022 at 6:26 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by R00tKiT - August 12, 2022 at 6:33 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Paraselene - August 12, 2022 at 6:35 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Jehanne - August 12, 2022 at 7:32 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Paraselene - August 12, 2022 at 7:36 pm
RE: Convert me if you can - by Angrboda - August 12, 2022 at 9:46 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Islam religion of peace , convert now before you end up in hell Youwait 62 18429 August 3, 2017 at 3:38 pm
Last Post: WinterHold
  Guy at my school trying to convert me to Islam. How do i respond? comed 48 10966 November 14, 2015 at 5:00 pm
Last Post: GoHalos1993
  Atheist/Islamophobic convert to Islam Sleepy 73 23838 December 8, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Last Post: WesOlsen
  1 in 9 young black people convert to Islam. Mystic 10 5645 August 20, 2013 at 10:49 am
Last Post: Something completely different
  How to convert a muslim to an Atheist? adam_1992p 44 40171 April 1, 2013 at 9:47 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Why do christians ever convert to islam? paulpablo 36 12711 March 11, 2013 at 2:13 am
Last Post: Muslim Scholar
  Re: The "Convert Me" Challenge: dr zakir naik mdbao 8 6842 July 30, 2010 at 9:30 am
Last Post: DeistPaladin
  *shock horror!* A convert to Islam was plotting a terrorist attack! Tiberius 51 39931 June 26, 2009 at 7:37 am
Last Post: Dotard



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)