(December 1, 2015 at 7:24 am)robvalue Wrote: As for the primary argument, it's easily defeated thusly:
Either there are one or more things that exist that didn't need a creator, or there isn't.
If there is, how did you rule out the universe being one of them?
If there isn't, God also needs a creator.
In some of these arguments for God, like the ontological argument, they are so vague in specifying the properties of the thing they are proving to exist, that it could just as well be the universe itself that is meant.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
