RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism
December 15, 2015 at 7:45 pm
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2015 at 8:10 pm by TheRocketSurgeon.)
(December 15, 2015 at 11:45 am)athrock Wrote:(December 14, 2015 at 2:12 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: You'll note that the person forming this poll recently said something in another thread that was akin to suggesting we (me, really) followed Dawkins (and someone else... was it Harris?) the way that Christians tend to follow apologists like McDowell, et al.
Of course, I immediately set the record straight, having read only one science book and one book on atheism by the former (and I only liked the science book) and not having read the latter at all, nor having had any interest in further reading of atheist "leaders", because I prefer to form my own ideas based on as broad a knowledge-base as possible.
I have no doubt this very concept is baffling to people who seek to attain truth from the Highest Authority via the Divinely Dictated Book Of Ultimate Truth.
Rocket-
I have mentioned Dawkins here and here.
Would you be so kind as to explain how you have construed from these posts that I have asserted that you or anyone else here "followed Dawkins"?
Thanks.
You said,
And as best I can tell, there are apologists on both sides of the divide...cranking out books to try to persuade people that their view is correct. Are Hitchens and Dawkins any different than Craig or McDowell? Haven't they banked a fair bit of money over the past few years? Are they simply "fooling" a different target market into handing over that cash?
This strongly implies that we would follow the beliefs of Hitchens or Dawkins, as churches formulate their creeds and use apologists to explain why that's the right way, effectively shaping doctrines for the church. It's how the Billy Grahams of the world get to the positions they attain, in their Christian fame. Except we have no such organization. I might find it interesting to go see Dawkins speak, as I respect him as a science-writer, but I'm not going to take anything he says as part of my doctrine with any more weight than I assign to any other source. We have no "pastors" telling us what to think.
You forget that many of us were former die-hard Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals, myself included. If you expect to slip implications of that nature into the conversations, do not expect us to miss them. I'm certain you'll cry foul now, and say that no such implication was intended, but I'm afraid I won't believe you. I spoke the language of the shibboleth, and I recognize it and its direction of tone, now.
Take your umbrage elsewhere.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.