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Current time: September 28, 2024, 9:37 am

Poll: Who is the best living spokesman for atheism?
This poll is closed.
Richard Carrier
0%
0 0%
Richard Dawkins
10.71%
3 10.71%
Daniel Dennett
3.57%
1 3.57%
Bart Ehrman
0%
0 0%
Sam Harris
21.43%
6 21.43%
Lawrence Krauss
7.14%
2 7.14%
Other (specify in a post)
57.14%
16 57.14%
Total 28 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Best Living Spokesman for Atheism
#90
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism
(December 21, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Delicate Wrote: Here he's wrong because he's ignorant of WHY "belief in a sacrifice" is said to be necessary by Christianity.

Taking responsibility for one's own actions entails almost-guaranteed ethical failure, because nobody, including atheists, can take full ethical responsibility for their actions such that they either make no ethical missteps, or correct every ethical misstep appropriately.

And the proof of this is in your own life. Think of how many times you've done wrong and haven't rectified it. How you've gone easy on yourself. Allowed yourself to do things that you know, on another level, you shouldn't do.

Do you think any atheist is capable of living a life free of unrectified moral failings?

Reality says it's impossible. Thus reality says Dawkins' point is impossible.

What we have here is an informal fallacy called the "99%= 0% fallacy." What you're essentially arguing is that, since I can't rectify my wrongdoings or live without them one hundred percent of the time, the idea that I should strive to do so, even if it ends up being imperfectly, is wrong. This is, quite clearly, absurd.

Leaving aside that Dawkins' point wasn't demanding perfection, we must also acknowledge that, in purely human terms, there's no requirement that we get it absolutely perfect, because there's no externally imposed points system by which we are to be judged. There's no metric, and no reward to strive for; there's no demand that we keep our moral books totally balanced to get into heaven, and thus no need for a magic sacrifice to cover the gap. You just do the best you can because it makes a better world, all the while acknowledging that you are human, you are fallible, and occasionally you'll slip up. When you reach the end, there won't be some cosmically imposed adjudicator sneering down at the discrepancy between the rectification you were able to provide and the immorality you caused, tutting that "it's not perfect, so I guess that whole 'making up for your own failings' thing you were going for is pointless and impossible, eh?"

It's not impossible. It's just unlikely to be pulled off flawlessly. Lots of things are like that. The entire framing of your argument is wrong.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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Messages In This Thread
Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by athrock - December 13, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by brewer - December 13, 2015 at 12:32 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Catholic_Lady - December 13, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 13, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Longhorn - December 13, 2015 at 12:43 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Mr.wizard - December 13, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Catholic_Lady - December 13, 2015 at 1:19 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Mr.wizard - December 13, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Clueless Morgan - December 13, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Reforged - December 14, 2015 at 1:39 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Alex K - December 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 13, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 13, 2015 at 3:41 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Iroscato - December 13, 2015 at 1:12 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Minimalist - December 13, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Excited Penguin - December 14, 2015 at 12:11 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 13, 2015 at 1:37 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Amine - December 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 13, 2015 at 1:53 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 13, 2015 at 3:40 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Vincent - December 13, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Nontheist - December 13, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 13, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Homeless Nutter - December 13, 2015 at 3:01 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by paulpablo - December 13, 2015 at 3:45 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by CapnAwesome - December 13, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Natachan - December 13, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2015 at 11:11 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Clueless Morgan - December 13, 2015 at 11:16 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Crossless1 - December 14, 2015 at 12:02 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 14, 2015 at 12:22 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 14, 2015 at 12:23 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Excited Penguin - December 14, 2015 at 1:36 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by TheRocketSurgeon - December 14, 2015 at 2:12 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Excited Penguin - December 14, 2015 at 3:55 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by athrock - December 15, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by TheRocketSurgeon - December 15, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by athrock - December 18, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by athrock - December 19, 2015 at 7:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by TheRocketSurgeon - December 19, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by athrock - December 20, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 20, 2015 at 7:37 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 19, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by mralstoner - December 27, 2015 at 6:54 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Heat - December 14, 2015 at 3:31 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 14, 2015 at 6:59 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 14, 2015 at 8:19 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by The Grand Nudger - December 14, 2015 at 8:53 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 14, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by KevinM1 - December 14, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by TheRocketSurgeon - December 14, 2015 at 3:04 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Crossless1 - December 15, 2015 at 1:00 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 14, 2015 at 1:49 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by KevinM1 - December 14, 2015 at 3:31 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Simon Moon - December 14, 2015 at 3:22 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by abaris - December 14, 2015 at 6:53 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Alex K - December 15, 2015 at 4:36 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2015 at 2:41 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Aroura - December 15, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by SofaKingHigh - December 15, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Kitty Galore - December 16, 2015 at 1:21 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Aroura - December 16, 2015 at 4:15 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Exian - December 18, 2015 at 2:45 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Jackalope - December 18, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by robvalue - December 18, 2015 at 4:58 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Mermaid - December 19, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 19, 2015 at 9:05 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by athrock - December 20, 2015 at 7:37 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 20, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 20, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 20, 2015 at 5:18 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 20, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 20, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 2:13 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 21, 2015 at 10:22 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 21, 2015 at 2:21 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 2:34 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 21, 2015 at 2:50 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 2:58 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 21, 2015 at 10:40 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Nontheist - December 21, 2015 at 8:02 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 1:50 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 21, 2015 at 1:54 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 21, 2015 at 1:54 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 2:05 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 21, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Esquilax - December 21, 2015 at 2:32 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 21, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Nontheist - December 21, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Esquilax - December 21, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 2:32 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Esquilax - December 21, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2015 at 3:32 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 3:39 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2015 at 4:12 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 21, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 21, 2015 at 8:26 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 22, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 23, 2015 at 1:17 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 23, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 12:15 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Losty - December 24, 2015 at 1:46 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 24, 2015 at 5:35 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 3:27 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 24, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 4:27 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 24, 2015 at 6:13 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 25, 2015 at 5:36 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 24, 2015 at 6:56 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 24, 2015 at 10:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 25, 2015 at 3:48 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Silver - December 25, 2015 at 3:50 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 25, 2015 at 9:15 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 24, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 23, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 24, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 24, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 21, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Esquilax - December 21, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 22, 2015 at 11:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 21, 2015 at 2:14 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 21, 2015 at 4:36 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 21, 2015 at 4:39 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by The Valkyrie - December 21, 2015 at 4:42 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 21, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Losty - December 22, 2015 at 4:38 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 21, 2015 at 4:48 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 21, 2015 at 6:35 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by robvalue - December 22, 2015 at 6:12 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 22, 2015 at 7:44 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 22, 2015 at 9:44 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by robvalue - December 22, 2015 at 10:18 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by vorlon13 - December 24, 2015 at 11:39 am
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cyberman - December 24, 2015 at 4:10 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Cato - December 24, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Sal - December 24, 2015 at 6:31 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 25, 2015 at 3:31 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Crossless1 - December 25, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by downbeatplumb - December 25, 2015 at 7:00 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 26, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Simon Moon - December 26, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 26, 2015 at 5:08 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by drfuzzy - December 26, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Delicate - December 26, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 27, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 27, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Whateverist - December 28, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by mralstoner - December 27, 2015 at 6:46 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 27, 2015 at 6:48 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by abaris - December 27, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 27, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 27, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by God of Mr. Hanky - December 30, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by thesummerqueen - December 27, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 27, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by mralstoner - December 27, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: Best Living Spokesman for Atheism - by Edwardo Piet - December 30, 2015 at 10:39 pm

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