A conversation with Robvalue about religion.

[Mystic]

You're using the word "ought" to mean what God wants us to do again. If he puts it in our nature, he's programming us to do something. That's not a reason to do it. This is exactly what I'm talking about, thinking for yourself. Human nature is not something independent from God, if he made us. It's just his opinion of what we should do.

Obviously it's not in my nature to submit to anyone or anything. If God made me that way, then he can deal with it. I'm doing just fine. I don't want to "ascend to" anything which is bullying me into submission, I want nothing to do with them.

If he didn't want us to think for ourselves, he shouldn't have given us the ability to do so.

I would suggest some serious thought about this issue, because it seems you are indeed someone who cannot conceive of not bowing down to a celestial dictator just because they exist and demand that you do.

Order/balance.
Chaos/disorder.

Let's discuss these two things. What do you think Quran says about the balance? What is the light according to Quran?

Rebellion is good, but not against God, but rather against illegitimate authority and darkness.

Submission is disgraceful but not towards God, but towards our low desires or low desires of others who lead us astray.

Wisdom is to put everything  in it's place.