What do you think of William Lane Craig?

[Esquilax]

I'm sorry, Ex...where did you earn your doctorate?  

Again, you leap to the assumption that I don't have one, despite me making it clear last time that I did, in fact, attend university. This isn't based on any actual evidence- you still don't even know my real name- but on your need to attack me as a person, rather than engage with the argument I presented the first time I posted here. Your naked, baseless aggression is noted, but does not, in itself, constitute an actual refutation of what I'm saying.

And in an amazing example of the pot calling the kettle black, YOUR half-truth now is to concentrate on attacking Craig's current employer (which is a small institution focused on a very specific objective, btw) while omitting any...mention...whatsoever...of his own academic training and credentials.

I'm shocked at the duplicity. Not.

That you can't see the difference isn't surprising, since you strike me now as a particularly insipid fellow, but I'll show you: of the two of us, I started out with an actual argument beyond ad hominems, and in fact offered to provide a more substantial criticism of WLC's ideas and philosophy if you wanted to provide those parts of that set you felt were particularly effective; I came into this discussion in good faith, willing to engage with whatever ideas you wished to bring to the table. I was the one of us who retains a standing offer to do so. The difference between us is that I've actually attempted to engage with the subject matter, rather than the person.

But I can only serve back the ball that's tossed into my court, athrock. In response to my offer, you opted not to actually present a WLC argument, but to attack my credentials (despite having no way to know what they are) and to puff up Craig's, as though an argument from authority will carry any weight here. Since you brought up Craig's tenured position as though it were some great achievement, and you seemed to want to focus on that instead of Craig's arguments, I refuted your "argument." This wasn't something I came to all on my own, after all.

And now, since your sacred cow has been slaughtered and his superficially impressive position dismantled, you rush to shift the goalposts to Craig's education, rather than his current employment. But you didn't mention his education at all in the last post, your sole jibe at me there was that Craig was a tenured professor, author, and speaker, so I should shut up. It's hardly "duplicity" for me to address the contentions you actually made, rather than ones you neglected to and apparently only want to focus on now because your first ones were so comprehensively drubbed. Is replying to the words you said truly so dishonest to you?

Craig got his first doctorate in philosophy from the University of Birmingham (England, not Alabama, in case you need a map or compass). THEY have 20,000 students (nanny nanny boo boo), and according to Wiki, "the university was ranked 15th in the UK and 76th in the world in the  for 2015-16." I'm not sure what all that means but I'm guessing that's pretty good.

His second doctorate was earned from Ludwig-Maximilian University of Munich. Heard of them? Me, either, but Wikipedia says the one in Munich is one of Germany's oldest universities. Oh, and since size matters to you, they have 50,000 students. (How do you measure up now, shorty?)

Again, I only brought up Talbot's relative size because you seemed to think his working there was some impressive achievement; I worked with what I was given, and now you're acting like I came up with this all on my own and had no prompting from you, which is weird given the quotations from you all over my last post. If you had actually stayed on topic instead of running your mouth in an attempt to attack me, we would be talking Craig's arguments now, not his education. This wouldn't have happened if you hadn't started it, there's no use getting arch at me because the shit you said turned out to be severely unimpressive.

Regarding education... it's nice, but it's not the be all and end all. It's what you do with that education that matters to me, and that's where Craig falls down, regardless of his (heretofore not even mentioned) pedigree: I took my education and turned it to helping underprivileged people with their literacy skills to give them a leg up in their professional lives, turning my linguistic skill to helping those that needed it most learn to read, on a mostly volunteer basis. Craig took his (far greater) opportunities and turned them into a means of enhancing his own wealth, he took his skill with words and used them to make his anemic ideas seem feasible with mealy-mouthed excuses and tarted up presuppositional tactics, and he took a position at a college where everyone already agreed with him and presupposing faith is a high enough requirement to be on literally every page of the website. That's the difference between an education used for good, and an education misspent.

Before you (hypocritically) accuse me of not engaging with Craig's ideas in favor of attacking the person again, I'll ask you just like I did the first time: present an argument of Craig's that you find to be particularly impressive, and I'll engage with that. Don't continue to attack me and puff up Craig's education like you think "he's real smart tho!" isn't just a fallacy, and maybe we can get somewhere.

... Or not. It's possible, since you did literally use the phrase "nanny nanny boo boo," so maybe you aren't here for an actual discussion.

Now, you have the stones to accuse ME of beginning with ad hominems (a charge I don't think you can actually prove by providing links to my posts, btw.) when you have just wasted the last 15 minutes of your life attempting to discredit a respected scholar with more credentials to his name than you will ever earn?

You spent the entirety of your response to me mocking me as a person instead of responding to what I'd said. If you don't think that's an ad hominem, I really don't know what to say to you.

Regarding Craig though, I don't happen to think that what I said discredits his position, which stands or falls on its own merits. Everything I said was within the context of your own baseless bragging about the man to avoid actually engaging with what I said. If you can't handle people responding to your senseless puffery, might I suggest providing something of actual substance next time? Like, maybe, the things in Craig's position that you find meaningful?

And exactly how does the current student enrollment of your publicly-funded university contribute to your own status in any way? Don't public universities usually accept just about any resident of that state? Oh, wait...are you saying that because 16,000 people got in, that makes your alma mater better than Talbot? Didn't you learn about the argumentum ad populum in philosopher's school? Or is this an appeal to your public school's authority? Which philosophy degree is worth more, Ex? Yours or his?

How do you know my university was a public one? I never so much as mentioned the name of it; you've got no way of knowing where I went. Hell, you don't even know what country I'm from (I'll give you a hint: it's not America) nor the acceptance standards for universities in that country. You wrote this entire long paragraph and all you ended up doing was showcase your willingness to leap to baseless, bad faith assumptions about a person you've never met in order to discredit them.

For the record, I posted the student number stats not as an argument from popularity, but to demonstrate the obvious differences between a real university, and a seminary tarted up to look like one. You've conveniently omitted it, but I went on to talk about the campuses and notable alumni from both schools too, but I guess those are harder to dishonestly dismiss as fallacies than the pure numbers I started out with.

Wow. To think that you used to have some cachet around here. The hissing sound you hear is the air leaking out of that balloon.



Oh, and 

(I'm mocking you openly and often, now. Get used to it, you pathetic joke.)

You're awfully confident that your baseless blather will be taken seriously. Do you intend to actually present an argument now? Or can I look forward to more fallacious attacks on me as a person, in a desperate attempt to conceal the fact that you don't actually have one?