The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Redbeard The Pink]

I jumped from organization to order because their meanings are very similar. "To systemize or coordinate together" (these are my words)

They're not the same thing, though, and you certainly shouldn't be trying to use them interchangeably in this context. Just because something appears to behave in an orderly fashion, doesn't mean it was necessarily organized by anyone.

My reasons behind a need for the exists of God is because of the need for a reason why materials behave as they do. What gives matter its properties? Why is there gravity?

Those are excellent questions, and questions like that are why we have science. Your bible does not begin to answer them, and many of its stories run directly contrary to documented facts from virtually every branch of science.


Furthermore, just because you perceive the need for a god, doesn't mean there is one. There are plenty of explanations that are more valid, more likely, and more easily testable, and according to Occam's Razor you have to rule those out before jumping to the conclusion that Gaud did it. There is no logical or demonstrable reason that a consistent reality demands a designer.

Materials just existing and moving in an orderly fashion does not solve the reason why things behave as they do.

Actually, it kind of does.

Materials don't have wills they just have properties.

For once, you've managed to say something that's scientifically accurate  

Now a god does have a will and can give a reason for why materials move in the way they should because a god gave them the properties and created the order in which they function.

Aaand there you go again.


The problem with that is that it's a preposterous assertion with zero evidence to support it and a mountain of evidence against it. Virtually everything we've discovered about the Universe suggests that it behaves the way it does automatically and without the need for governance or interference from anyone, let alone a Bronze/Iron Age myth.

God, the one and only "god", the one i have been talking about, is an orderly and purposeful "god", therefore: an Orderly and Purposeful creation...

If reality has a way it consistently works then I would say it has a way it should work.

And I would say you have no reasonable basis for making that assertion, aside from your misunderstanding of the English language and how it works.

If it doesn't have a way it should work then when things don't work what do you call that?

The Universe and its processes have yet to stop working, but if they ever do come to a complete stop and dissipate I'm pretty sure that's called "the heat death of the Universe." Guess where I learned that. Go on, guess.

If your would view poses that reality must be consistent then subjective morals are an anomaly, because they are not consistent.

Are you twisting my words on purpose to be sneaky, or do you really not understand the things I'm saying? I literally can't tell.


I never said "reality must be consistent," or if I did I didn't mean it in the sense that you understood it. I really don't think that's what I said, though, and it's not close enough to what I did say to be considered an accurate representation of my statement. I said "the Universe behaves consistently." What that means is that even if matter and energy change over time (as we observe that they do), the mechanics by which they do that are always consistent.

You claim in your world view that morals are subjective, meaning that they change based on a societies will and the time where upon that society exists. So there isn't an consistent way one should love or administer justice, from one society to another, and throughout time. That is not consistent and it lacks integrity.

And regardless of how human morals evolve over time, human brain chemistry continues to abide by the same laws of physics that the Universe has apparently always followed, and that is the consistency I'm describing. Consistency of the basic mechanics of the Universe.


Complete and utter consistency of all reality would just be some form of stasis; again, I'm having a hard time deciding whether you're deliberately misrepresenting me or just misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I feel as though you are taking order for granted.

I feel as though you are taking the Superantural for granted.

Why is there order?

Because matter and energy behave in such a way that they form orderly systems over time, and they've had enough time.

Why is there gravity?

Man...when your'e trying to act like science doesn't have all the answers, you should really try to pick questions that science doesn't have the answers to.


Gravity exists because objects warp space-time as they occupy it, literally bending space-time in a field around themselves. This bend creates a kind of space-time "hill" that cause things to slide toward each other through space (it's a weird concept and a little difficult to describe).


Incidentally, scientists recently detected gravitational waves for the first time, and the information they gathered seems to support this idea, which I think was mostly conjecture and math until now.


In other gravity-related news, did you that Gravity is actually "just" a scientific theory, and that we have more evidence to support the Theory of Evolution than we do to support the Theory of Gravity? Did you know that? Are you gonna stop believing in gravity now? I mean, the Bible does say that Jesus and a few other people just straight up floated into the sky, so if anybody's Universe doesn't consistently obey the laws of Physics, it's yours. Maybe Gravity doesn't exist.

Do you believe there was nothing and then something and if so why?

I don't necessarily believe that. It's possible, I suppose, but it's also possible that there was just always something, and it took a really long time for it to change into what it is today. I don't have a definite belief on this subject because there's not enough evidence to form one (please don't try to tell me that the bible is evidence).

Where did matter come from and why does it behave in the way it does?

It came from a giant wheel of cheese, and it behaves the way it does because magical, cosmic spoons constantly stir it. Prove me wrong.

You say order is a natural outcome of the world, why?

You say eternal punishment is a natural outcome of finite crimes. Why?

Why do things this just fall into order? Where is your empirical data for all of this?

Because the Universe behaves consistently, creating orderly systems over time. Getting a little sick of repeating myself.


I asked first. Show me the empirical data for your god and I'll show you the empirical data for my science. Don't worry. I'll wait.

I am glad you are not afraid of my imaginary friend because I don't have one. 

I'm pretty sure there's a word for people who believe their imaginary friends are real.

Lies and mockery won't change the fact that God does exist and has given you empirical data all around you to reveal the truth of His existence.

Ah, the old "Everything is proof" card. I counter with the assertion that everything is actually evidence of natural processes that have been ongoing for billions of years, and they were started by no one and are maintained by no one. Occam's Razor again demands that we approach and prove or disprove my assertion first.


Ready, set, go.

He even went so far as to give you a bible (you will be held accountable for the 20 years you had His word before you).

Aw...and after I specifically asked you not to...


I'm sure I've said this somewhere in this thread already, but I have to say it a lot around here, so why not?


The bible is not evidence of itself. You cannot use the bible as evidence of your claim because the bible is your claim. Claims are not evidence of themselves.

Your behavior of resisting God and thereby suppressing the truth of His existence will not save you.

From what, the delicious Hell you're picturing for me right now? Also, there you go again threatening me on behalf of your imaginary fear-monger.

That is why He sends people to tell you the truth, to tell you that He has made a way to pay for your sins. This is mercy but if you refuse to repent, He will keep His word, and you have read about it. There is no need for threats, I know God and He wants you to escape His wrath. 

Ooh yeah...tell me about that wrath, girl. You're seeing it now, aren't you? Is it juicy? Am I on fire? Are there demons torturing and raping me forever? Is my atheist wife there with me? What about our gay cats that play bootyhole in the floor? Is my whole household being flayed repeatedly for the appeasement of the god of all good and love? Come on, give me the nasty. How is your perfectly benevolent god gonna torture old Redbeard in a realm of endless suffering? Don't hold back. I wanna know what your fantasies are about how awful my eternal punishment is gonna be.